Craftsmanship and work ethics

[Phrunes]

Chit sheets and timeclocks. The tools of the trade in the 70's and 80's. Imagine trying to build aircraft without computers. No project management software, SharePoint, electronic parts management. Its a wonder anything came out right!

[Kota]

Originally Posted by Phrunes

Imagine trying to build aircraft without computers.!

One of my first projects out of college was developing a system to download miles and miles (in punched Mylar tape terms) of numerical control data put out by the new 3D modeling systems. Modern aircraft wouldn't be possible without computers.

[slowmover]

" . . corporate mindset is to show big profits in the short run to keep the stock up, give management lucrative deals on private stock purchases and bonuses. "

In the end this is where things lay.

Yet in a society of t-shirts, tattoos & television we're a long ways away on the other end of society as well. Americans spent nearly 17% of their take-home income on clothing less than a hundred years ago. Probably right through the 1950's. The desire for the best one could afford is quite different where today pride hides itself at work or in public.

Problems at both ends of the income spectrum.

I agree that THOR benefits from a design they'd not have come up with on their own. Look at the weight increases, alone, and that is evident. I've not ever found serious problems on a Silver Streak, but I've also not had to do a shell-off. A TT manufacturer that built a maximum of [6] TT's weekly was in a different class. One that Americans can no longer afford. "Vacation" is different than in that (sadly) bygone era.

As the actual demand for this TT type peaked in the late 1960's - early 1970's it is now in the hands of owners to identify problems, promulgate fixes and lend support. And it was, and never will be, fair to compare one of these to something like an automobile.

To say that "quality" is middle-of-the pack ignores the standard of a twenty-year service life before overhaul. I'll take longevity.

.

[Denis4x4]

Slowmover posted: "To say that "quality" is middle-of-the pack ignores the standard of a twenty-year service life before overhaul. I'll take longevity",

Earlier today, I bought a 1985 Avion 30' and other than some real bad taste decorating features, it was in excellent shape for a 28 year old TT. Quite frankly, the fit and finish is better than that of my 2006 Safari 25FB.

[TG Twinkie]

I still can't understand the corporate mind set.
They never have the money to do it right the first time. But they have the money to do it over or make it right.
What kind of sense does that make?
It has to be more expensive to do warranty work than it does to do it right the first time.
Now that A$ is selling in China. It won't be long before there is a Chinese version. Being sold here. Probably less expensive and better quality.
Remember the big 3 automakers of the '60's. When Toyota, Honda and Datsun came to town. They didn't think the Japanese cars and trucks would sell here. The big 3 are still playing catch up to this day.
I have driven Toyota trucks since 1976. Use to be a huge GM fan. Until they sold me a lemon back in 1970.
It took me a year to get that Chevy Malibu fixed. I have never forgotten that experience.
When I see owners of new A$ products facing the same issues I have had with my 39 year old Argosy. Which were expected with my purchase. ie. Floor rot, poor workmanship, lousy housekeeping on the finished product, fit and finish issues.
And I keep reading about how much better they are than the other RV's out there. In the opinion of some anyway.
While none are perfect. It says to me that Thor just makes; "The best of the worst".
Is that really what the corporate motto should be?

[switz]

Saw a Dodge/Chrysler mini van on a lot once. The brand depended on which side of the car you looked were looking at.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Dakota

We're getting close on a negotiated agreement!

I tend to lean a bit more toward personal responsibility and taking ownership for your actions. If you work for unethical bastards you need to move on instead falling to their level. It a dead end trap!

Dakota,

I harken back to my working daze at my first GM Store.

First as a Tech then as a Service Advisor.

When Teching I was but one cog out of 15.
Three teams of 5 each.
I consistently had the best CSI score on my team. As others on the team took note the our team score slowly rose. The incentive being $$$, better score equals bigger bonus. Our rising score had little effect on the total Service score though, to many outside factors. "Trickle Down" on a limited scope.

When I became a Service Advisor I was in charge of one of those teams, and as the competition between teams heated up the total service score did rise.

Now expand the concept…..competition between departments, service, new car, used car. Between Dealers, Regions, Manufacturers etc.etc.

If someone at the top was so inclined the change could be moved along quite nicely.

"Trickle Down" on a grand scale.

Bob

[AKristine]

As a 63 year old woman who plans on making an Airstream purchase in 2014, I find this comment thread disheartening. I have no mechanical skills and never look under the hood of my car. I raise money for a living and consider myself reasonably intelligent. I value quality...hence my interest in Airstream. The thought of a left behind candy wrapper is crazy to me -- I just can't wrap my arms around that. The thought of being out on the road with a new Airstream "by myself" only to discover some random wires or whatever were not connected correctly does not feel right. Yes, call me naive. It just makes me sad to learn that issues being described are going on.

Kristine

[92landyacht]

The minor issues that others have talked about here are just that... Minor. No matter what RV you buy, you will see the same issues. It's not an AS only thing. You can buy a $600,000 Prevost and find the same type of issues. Don't let this thread get you down.

[Jim Clark]

Kristine, buying an Airstream is more like buying a House than a car. When you buy a home you have punch out items which often take a year or two to get corrected, or wind up in court. When you buy an Airstream it the same issue accept you tow the Airstream many miles away from the person who provides the warranty. You are now aware of many of the issues that do go wrong. You now have the ability to look and point out all the issues before you pickup your trailer. Try to camp in the trailer at the dealer, then at a near by camp ground. Do not plan to hop in the trailer and go on a extended trip and have it ruined by an unexpected fault. Don't set yourself up to fail. Use a list and add all the items here to it. Do not take the word of the dealer all is right check it yourself, or with someone who has knowledge of Airstreams. You won't be left stranded, most of the items mentioned here are not show stoppers, it just sounds like it because this is a venting thread, but very helpful to the new buyer.


Jim

[richinny]

kristine

while a bunch of us gripe about things that are easily improved at the factory, a lot depends on your dealer. some are better than others. i was lucky that Colonial is close to me.

trailers are like houses in that there are things that will fail in time. you'll learn to deal with things. yes, i agree that wrappers left in the trailer are inexcuseable, you're likely going to find them in any brand there days.

i had a friend forfeit a deposit on a house he was having built. he saw the workers stashing trash as they worked. the builder saw nothing wrong with that. some people just don't get it.

[TG Twinkie]

It's not a minor issue when it causes problems. Especially if you are without the knowledge or in a place where you can't get help. It's not minor when you have to take your unit to the factory to resolve the problem. And make multiple trips to do so.
I don't care if the unit cost $60K or $600K. People are not buying Yugo's.
I am not singling out A$ here.
Farm machinery is another area where it takes month's and a LOT of $$$$. To get problems resolved.
If you are being paid to do a job. You should do the best possible job. When the company you work for has a reputation, good or bad. It can have an effect on your job security.
We have gone from being problem solvers to just parts changers. Keep changing the parts until you come across the one that fixes the problem. But make sure you charge the customer for every hour and every part. Even the unnecessary parts.
Owning a RV is an expensive proposition. Especially when you have to pay $100.00 an hour or more to have the problem solved.
I don't consider $100.00+ to be a minor problem.

[thomdial]

A couple of the seat cushions in my 79 Safari are badly worn. You can't tell by looking at them individually, but when you hold them side-to-side in direct sunlight with the others, the stitching around the zippers is definitely a little different. I will eventually get around to making the repair.
But first, I need to make some frame modifications which will allow my trailer to withstand a side-on collision with a mack truck while hauling loose water poured in through the astrodome without spilling a drop. -And somehow outperform a Dyson vacuum cleaner in every test possibly imaginable. Camping will just have to wait.

[cwf]

Even with all the warts the AS is better than most other rv's.

[dkottum]

I read these complaint threads a few years ago before I bought my first Airstream and realized, for the most part, there's a few people posting the same complaints and the same photos over and over.

We bought the Airstream anyway, it was an excellent product and we enjoyed it immensely. So much so, we bought a larger Airstream in a couple of years and spend even more time with it. Again, an excellent product.

However, it is your responsibility to maintain, or have a good dealer maintain, your Airstream. They need regular inspections for leaks, corrosion, and proper operation. And repair of any problems found. Unlike many Rv's, it is always repairable and worth the effort for years to come.

Take care of it and it will last a lifetime.

doug k

[ROBERT CROSS]

"I read these complaint threads a few years ago before I bought my first Airstream and realized, for the most part, there's a few people posting the same complaints and the same photos over and over."

It just may be that new owner's are experiencing some of the same problems we did ten years ago, and asking the same questions.

Proud to be one of the few....Semper-fi

Bob

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Interesting thread. A couple of my thoughts...
*Why do people complain so much about their Airstreams? If you don't like the quality and craftsmanship, try a Prowler out for size. I think you'll love your Airstream after that.
*The trailers made before Wally's death in 1962 are never filled with debris. The people building them took great pride in what they did. Many of them were so proud, they signed their work. I do find dropped rivets, but never any trash. After 1963, the trash starts showing up.
*In the day, a man/woman went to work for an employer as a career. Most of what they produced was made to last forever. It was built so that if it broke, it could be serviced or repaired. Now a days, everything is built to be thrown away and replaced.
*We live in a society that really only cares about the bottom line. The buyer wants it as inexpensive as possible and the stock holders want it with the biggest profit margin possible. The result is cheap products.

[switz]

Maybe we are reaching the point where lowering your expectations to zero will allow the individual to be not disappointed.

The Airstream is an upmarket house on wheels that we call a camper.

One could easily say camping at the basic level involves a back pack and a sleeping bag. Going first class in that scenario would add a small tent. One would cook over an open fire and use a pit toilet.

So the tent is replaced with an aluminum shell to which we add a gas stove and oven, toilet, shower, hot water, air conditioning, beds, storage of fresh and used water, electric lights, etc. The shell has wheels so we can move it from place to place and we expect that shell to withstand the bumps and undulations of any road without any issues.

Having seen a regular house being moved on huge trucks/trailer bodies and taking up entire streets and the cracked walls that need to be repaired at the destination, the Airstream really holds quite nicely, thank you.

When I was on going to active duty eons ago, we bought a 12 x 65 mobile home. The unit was to be moved from Bloomington, IN to Tiverton, RI. We drove on ahead and awaited the unit. The box tubular frame breaking a weld delayed the arrival by 69 days as the unit was returned to the factory for a new I-beam frame. We lived out of our two suitcases in a motel room for the duration. That trailer was to be our home while in the military.

For a significant percentage of Airstream owners, this is a camping hobby. It is an expensive hobby at that.

We are just starting this adventure. The forum threads are full of other folk's experiences and we are able to discover where there could be issues and be on the lookout for signs of an issue before it becomes a major problem.

After all, water heaters fail , check, roofs need to be repaired, check, plaster cracks, check, plumbing backs up, check. Gee, all these issues have occurred in fixed homes I have owned. I would expect a moving home to possibily have these issues as well.

These events are all part of the "adventure" we bought into when purchasing our Airstream.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. And thanks for sharing your suggestions on fixing the issues so others do not have to recreate the wheel.

[Denis4x4]

While I would agree with most posters here that there is a responsibility to do routine maintenance and that the unique design and construction of an AS creates issues not usually found on other TT's, nobody has addressed the elephant in the room; perceived value. Add to that a dealership system that is hit and miss as well as geographically undesirable.

Somebody needs to explain to me why an AS owner should drive thousands of miles to have warranty work done at the factory. There are countless 25' TT's
out there that retail for less than $20,000. Quality expectations for those units should be low. However, when you pay three times that amount, it is not unrealistic to expect a higher level of quality and service.

It's taken me four years to work out the kinks and fix things that I think should have been warranty issues.

Yes, the AS is a great TT, but the lack of a strong dealer network and QC issues need to be addressed by THOR.

[dkottum]

Dennis, the QC issues have been addressed by Airstream. But the dealer network has been lousy, and I don't blame Airstream for this. Our dealer is part of a larger network of businesses. And they sell many types and brands of RV's and service them all.

I understand this as well. Few dealers can sell enough Airstreams to live on that alone. The ones who do seem to have much better Airstream service departments, because that is what they fix every day.

You may be surprised how many people, those who travel a lot, plan trips through Jackson Center to have their Airstream serviced on a somewhat regular basis, not because they have to, but because Jackson Center is so good at what they do. Not a good plan for the working man.

I would also like to see better local Airstream service around the country. I see new Airstream dealers opening so there is hope for that. Meantime we're just enjoying the heck out of our Airstream. Still looking for that loose candy wrapper and when I do I'll be sure to tell everyone about it, with photo evidence.

doug k