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Old 05-02-2013, 10:14 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post

I haven't lost all hope that that your "obsolete" view not will survive in today's environment.
If not, we're in more trouble than just shoddy Airstream practices.

Couldn't agree more.

In other words "trickle down" ethics.

I like to think it worked pretty well for me growing up....

Bob
We're getting close on a negotiated agreement!

I tend to lean a bit more toward personal responsibility and taking ownership for your actions. If you work for unethical bastards you need to move on instead falling to their level. It a dead end trap!
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:30 AM   #72
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You can't move on if you live where there are no other jobs, or jobs you are unqualified for, or you can't afford further education, or don't know how to do things in demand in urban areas. People in rural areas are stuck in many cases in an endless cycle of low wages, poor education opportunities and lack of resources to improve their lives. I live in such an area and the prospects for employment are poor, and the jobs here are either part time or pay very little.

Jackson Center is a small town in a rural area. It is not far from distressed urban areas such as Toledo and Dayton, but even those cities are far, far from people stuck in the counties surrounding JC.

Only a company as large as Thor has the resources to improve things and they don't use those resources for that purpose.

I'm all for personal responsibility too, but there's a limit to what an individual can do.

Gene
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:37 AM   #73
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Not an excuse to do a shoddy job!
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:48 AM   #74
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You would think someone at Airstream would read these forums daily in order to further the quality of their product.And not just read but make changes in the production cycle.Overall they build a good product but in business it is the little things that separate a good product from a great one.
I guess that I am old school but I was taught to listen to your customers and constantly make improvements or fade away.....
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:14 PM   #75
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Quote:
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Not an excuse to do a shoddy job!
However if you don't know any better then how do you determine what is shoddy? I have a friend that builds shelves for her house, as a former trim carpenter I hold my tounge, She is happy with them and they work so that is what counts in that case.

If someone has not been taught or shown what is quality work how will they know what it is?

As far as corporations like Thor... they are selling every Airstream they make at the prices they demand so in their eyes any money spent on "improvement" is going to take away from their bottom line.

Aaron
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:21 PM   #76
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Moflash, why would they listen to the same grumbling by the same people telling them how to run their company, over and over again. There are complaints here that are 10-20 years old. That may be useful to someone, but talk about beating a dead horse.

They see these very problems in their products every day, on site, at their own Service Center. And they have responded to them, which is evident in the design and build quality of newer trailers.

They have a Customer Service phone that is available to us. Report your problem directly. We could also try calling the CEO and tell him how to run his company. I have used the Customer Service and the Service Center and they have been extremely good. Our new trailer was not absolutely perfect in its first year of use, but darn close.

doug k
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:24 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
I was taught to listen to your customers and constantly make improvements or fade away.....
Check this thread if you think Airstream is in danger of fading away: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f483...ml#post1293470 .

Tim

PS Full disclosure: I am completely happy with the quality of our Airstream, purchased new in 2002 and still going strong.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:08 PM   #78
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However if you don't know any better then how do you determine what is shoddy? I have a friend that builds shelves for her house, as a former trim carpenter I hold my tounge, She is happy with them and they work so that is what counts in that case.

If someone has not been taught or shown what is quality work how will they know what it is?

As far as corporations like Thor... they are selling every Airstream they make at the prices they demand so in their eyes any money spent on "improvement" is going to take away from their bottom line.

Aaron
Interesting where this thread went. If you read my original post that started all of this, I complained about individual workers and their bad habits of not cleaning up their trash. Nothing negative about Airstream or the product in general. I doubt if its company policy to leave thash hiddin behind cabinits and fixtures. Just sloppy workmanship in my oppinion. I also explained why leaving the trash behind bothered me. Again, my opinion. It's a health and fire hazard along with promoting rot.


I wouldn't be beating this horse except we are stuck in a KOA on I90 waiting out the "spring" storm. And building snowmen!


Cheers, and thanks for letting me rant about a pet peeve.


Dave....
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:58 PM   #79
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Snowman + Fluffy Dog = Win
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:35 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Interesting where this thread went. If you read my original post that started all of this, I complained about individual workers and their bad habits of not cleaning up their trash. Nothing negative about Airstream or the product in general. I doubt if its company policy to leave thash hiddin behind cabinits and fixtures. Just sloppy workmanship in my oppinion. I also explained why leaving the trash behind bothered me. Again, my opinion. It's a health and fire hazard along with promoting rot.


I wouldn't be beating this horse except we are stuck in a KOA on I90 waiting out the "spring" storm. And building snowmen!


Cheers, and thanks for letting me rant about a pet peeve.


Dave....
It all boils down to company "ethics" and management. I work for a decent sized national industrial roofing and siding contractor. Some crews from some offices do beautiful work and maintain clean, orderly jobsite, others not don't do nearly as well. When I was in field ops I felt like a friggin' nanny. I had to stay on the crews constantly to keep things organized and cleaned up. I had two new formen come in, I got to them early and to this day they still keep things nice and neat. Unfortunately the upper management in this company doesn't hold people's feet to the fire to make them perform ALL aspects of the job effectively. They are more concerned about production and profit numbers than anything else and it shows. I can prove to them that a clean job site is safer and more productive by the numbers, but it isn't a large enough margin to grab their attention, especially in this day and age of competitive bidding. We just recently lost a bid to a company by less than 1/2% of the value of a project. The company we lost too has one of the worst safety records in the bunch, but it was that bottom dollar on the contract they looked at. I can promise you that it will end up costing them a lot of money in additional management time to oversee that contractor versus us or even some others.

I see things that Airstream did 30 years ago, 25 years ago, 20 years ago and even still do today that aren't really acceptable, the hidden trash being one of them.

Aaron
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:58 PM   #81
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I'm surprised at some of the comments on this thread.
I remodel bathrooms for a living.
Fancy ones in fancy houses.
I recently finished one that reached $40K.
Am presently doing the 'kids' bath in a home that will surely reach $30.
They are perfect when I'm done. I stand behind them and I take great pride in my work.
But ya know, sometimes there's a few pieces of sheet rock scraps stashed between the studs and there is sawdust in there from drilling holes for pipes and wires. Under the tub there is dust.
There is my fingerprints on the ceiling joists from where I wiped off some flux that dripped on me.
I might drill a hole in the wrong place and have to redrill it.
And dog gone it I forgot to take that box of screws and my speed square out from under the bench in the shower before I nailed on the cement board.
Today I was stripping off wallpaper and scraped a bit slimey paste off my taping knife in the hole I cut into the sheetrock to change the plumbing
So sorry!
I don't give a darn about those silly things.
And the next guy to see them - in 40 years - when it's remodeled again - wont give a darn either.
You people seem to think a guy has the time to run around with a vacuum cleaner and clean up every particle of dust. And of course do it all on a bid that is 30% less than the other guys who bid the job.
What you wont see me do is over kill the job - use 4 nails, 3 screws and a tube of liquid nails when 4 nails will suffice.
And you wont see me miss a nail plate or a wire staple or a pipe hanger or a ground wire like the homeowner jobs I sometimes take apart and redo.
I don't post a lot on these forums but I do read about a lot of the "restorations" and repairs people make on these trailers. And sometimes I just shake my head at the shoddy, goofy schemes and fixes and am amazed at the oohs and aahs over the finished product which I suspect wont last more than a few miles down a rough road.
And then have the audacity to complain about a few specs of debris that got left behind.
So many of you haven't a clue what goes into making something beautiful, and outstanding and lasting. Don't seem to understand what is important.
My old Overlander is still going strong. It's warm and watertight and it works perfect as it is. Yeah, I suppose If I pulled the fridge out I may see a rivett that got left behind or a scrap of tin that wasn't swept up or a piece of plastic that got cut off nearly 40 years ago.
But does that really matter?
Not to me.
Not to someone who knows how to build beautiful things that last.

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Old 05-02-2013, 08:11 PM   #82
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Wow, I feel like I need some cheese to go along with this whine.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:26 PM   #83
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Wink

Yep.....

..... more whine bathroom 4...

Difference being...if Airstream made them so we didn't have to dismantle 'em..... never mind....'gotta go to the outhouse


Bob
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:06 PM   #84
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Those bathrooms are too beige, the tile work is all wonky and the cabinet doors are set poorly...
Criticizing a group of hobbyists for the work they do within their abilities and budgets only opens yourself to criticism of your so-called craftsmanship in kind...
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