Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-01-2013, 01:28 AM   #57
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,269
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 51
Hi, I like my trailer and believe that I got my monies worth, but for those who have 2011, 2012, or 2013 models, your time will come. You say they are all roses now, but in about five years or more, when you need to take something apart [like I did] and find a pile of scraps left in the cabinet, under the oven and above the furnace, you will wonder just how long that trash would have been hiding inside of your brand new trailer if you had never needed to look in there. And the person who left this trash in your brand new trailer [during assembly] will also wonder in the back of his mind how long it will take you, if ever, to find this treasure hidden somewhere that you might never need to or want to look in. You may also, like I did, find a piece or two, of wood cabinetry [in a place you might never look] that has the look of having been sawn with the precision of a chain saw. [end of bed frame in mine]
__________________

__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 05:27 AM   #58
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs down Example.....

I'll second Robert's trash findings....
Bic lighter and Sniker wrapper found under rug in rear storage compartment..(8" from water heater) + trash found in most areas that needed repairs.

One example, could have been very costly if not found 2weeks after delivery thanks to the forums......



These are not illustrations of poor quality, just poor execution, something that can be taken care of with an attitude adjustment...

Bob
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 07:04 AM   #59
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,648
This picture is exactly why I don't like putty tape. As you can see it is not getting the job done. It did not help that none of it was under the flange.

Perry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I'll second Robert's trash findings....
Bic lighter and Sniker wrapper found under rug in rear storage compartment..(8" from water heater) + trash found in most areas that needed repairs.

One example, could have been very costly if not found 2weeks after delivery thanks to the forums......



These are not illustrations of poor quality, just poor execution, something that can be taken care of with an attitude adjustment...

Bob
__________________
perryg114 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 07:31 AM   #60
3 Rivet Member
 
2013 20' Flying Cloud
Cream Ridge , New Jersey
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
My wife and I purchased a 20' Flying Cloud after attending several shows and examining hundreds of trailers in that size and weight class. I have always like the look and design of the Airstream and was always lead to believe that it is the best of the best. This will be our fifth travel trailer and hopefully our last. I have done some major reconstruction on new trailers in the past and was looking forward to owning a trailer that was constructed properly by people who take pride in what they do. Wrong!!! This trailer has some pretty high tech features for a travel trailer and some great design features. I love the way it tows down the road for one thing. I know because I have towed it back to the dealer three times so far with another trip scheduled and we haven't used it yet. I know that nothing is perfect and nothing is easy but the lack of quality control has left me wishing that we kept looking. I keep thinking and hoping that once I get the bugs worked out it will be a good home away from home and we will make many happy memories in our "silver jellybean" but at this point I can honestly say that the "hype" does not match the reality.
__________________
Joe Palmieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 07:51 AM   #61
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
This picture is exactly why I don't like putty tape. As you can see it is not getting the job done. It did not help that none of it was under the flange.

Perry
And it didn't help that the Factory saw fit to use only 6 of the 12 available mounting points. Granted the indentations were there but not drilled. Look close and you can see them in the first photo!!




Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 08:51 AM   #62
Rivet Master
 
Phrunes's Avatar
 
1978 31' Sovereign
Oakley , California
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,197
Freakin worker left empty coffee cups in every nook and cranny of mine!...oh, that was me.
__________________
Phrunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 08:53 AM   #63
2 Rivet Member
 
Columbus , Ohio
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 77
Ugh - jumping in again. Want to mention the cost. When I factor that in I want a better product. I am talking about the 85g's that will buy you a classic or 60g's that buys you a 25' International. Finding scrap of wire ends, insulation, snicker bar wrappers etc. shows a lack of detail and ownership. My trip to the factory was an eye opener. There were part bins all over the place and hand written notes on many of the bins.

By contrast I worked for awhile at Honda Factory. It was clean and organized. AirStream could use an injection of Honda know how.
__________________
tuffr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 09:53 AM   #64
cwf
Rivet Master
 
cwf's Avatar
 
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,935
Images: 2
I worked for a BIG corporation over 37 years. The 'senior' management and non-managerial folks had respect for customer which I absorbed and made my own 'ethic'. Management, drove much of that 'ethic quality' out of the business behind closed doors while pushing this 'work ethic' in public.... it was a motivator killer when you are resolving a customer problem and your manager is berating you for some 'generic' number... never considering the customers.

To me, that was deceit and I struggled to walk the line of caring for our customers, our bread-n-butter and at the core, I deeply appreciated my customers.

When the 'worker' comes to believe, at his/her core, that they they are REPLACEABLE, and merely a TOOL being used, they TEND to behave accordingly without a motivational ethic to temper action.

One lesson I learned was from a automobile 'body' man in the early 1960s. Name of product is unimportant. A customer had complaint of 'banging/thumping' noise when driving. Eventually my friend, taking personal ownership of the problem, tore the car apart after identifying the problem occurred when turning on a certain road at certain speed... a 'repeatable process', not just blowing off the complaint so that he could 'make his book hours'... He found a glass Coca-Cola bottle, tied up using some string and swinging like a pendulum inside the trunk between the side of car and fender well. Inside the bottle was a note.. I saw it....as I recall, it said "took you a while to find this one, didn't it?"

Us guys always played 'tricks' as part of some 'fun on the job'... but, not at customers' expense like that. We glued tools down, left dirty rags in a buddy's tool box, etc..

On one occasion management 'secured' these rags and would only hand out a few at a time... trying to 'control cost'... so, customers' machines were not properly cleaned, except for a few of us who bought our own... including soap! I went for my usual disbursement and was told, "there are no clean rags." The parts room guys were dilligent in keeping us out of the room but would not check for some 'partially used' rags. I got the office manager to go fish out some 'usable' rags... after that, the 'rule' was changed and I could get all I needed to care for their/our customers.

We were told "we pay you an above average wage"... I replied, "Oh, ok, so, you only want 'above average' work? Cool." Now, whether someone has the courage to say that, or just changes behavior, it has an effect.

I have a lot more examples.. bottom line, if the 'workers' do not 'feel the love', you will get ONLY your dollar amount.
__________________
cwf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #65
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
It seems that QC has improved in recent years, but some owners say absolutely "no". It seems as if there is spotty QC and some trailers get the worst workers. There have been a few threads about poor QC and cheap parts in the past 2 years. That is less than in the 4 years before that, but either QC has improved a bit or people posted they would never buy an Airstream after they found out about QC and cheap parts, so the company did lose a lot of money because of that (if 15 posted, that's around $1M in retail sales, but maybe more never posted but were influenced not to buy). It is possible that training for new hires is not well done. When Airstream does change, it is very slowly—things like better sealing have been called for for many years here, but only in the past year or two have they been installed seals under penetrations, and using the cheapest seals they can find.

When I met Bob Wheeler about 3 or 4 years ago I asked him if they had QC engineers and he told me yes. My reply was to get better ones because they weren't doing a good job. I said the service center knows what things are done badly, so is there a factory and service center committee to review the problems and correct them? Wheeler said yes, so I replied that the factory reps aren't listening. It is very hard to change a culture of sloppiness and ultimately, management is responsible. When management does aggressive cost cutting and pays as little as they can get away with, the workers get the message that if management doesn't care what goes out the door, why should we workers care either?

Our 2008 (bought in the fall of 2007) was poorly factory prepped and the dealer didn't do anything either to deliver a good trailer. Eventually we took it to the service center twice for days of warranty work. It was not a good experience.

There isn't much on the internet as to reviews of RV quality. There is one website I've found and Airstreams come out in the middle—average. But a good part of the overall review was based on design. The design has been there for decades and the present ownership would never have had the imagination to come up with it if they hadn't bought it a generation ago. Subtract design, and Airstream would be below average. All of Thor's products are average or worse in those reviews.

I'm glad some owners are getting much better built trailers. Airstream employees do read these threads and some of them are trying to improve the product. The corporate culture is as hard to change as the culture on the floor, maybe harder given the personalities of those who tend to become corporate leaders.

Automation is expensive in the short run, though in the long run it usually pays. It doesn't guarantee quality if management isn't committed to quality. Hand built units are as good as management wants them to be. Quality has nothing to do with either automation or hand built. But craftsmen are hard to find and demand good wages. They save you money in the long run (they work much faster and more accurately), but corporate mindset is to show big profits in the short run to keep the stock up, give management lucrative deals on private stock purchases and bonuses. If power drills weren't cheap, they'd still be using hand drills.

I wish we had known more when we decided to buy a trailer. I would have looked for recent used model well taken care of. But a lot of what I have learned took years of reading posts and owning the trailer. But aluminitis makes you drunk on buying an Airstream. Patience while captured by the design is very hard to practice. After more than 5 years, things have settled down. I have done substantial and expensive upgrades and fixes. The list is long and the trailer is much nicer than the ill-prepared one that we picked up 5 1/2 years ago. We enjoy it. It serves our travel purposes. It looks cool.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 11:38 AM   #66
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,137
Images: 24
Once China gets into the RV manufacturing business the industry will really shake up. Their quality has improved a lot over the last 10 years and could well build better RV's for a lot less.
__________________
kscherzi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2013, 12:28 PM   #67
Rivet Master
 
Phrunes's Avatar
 
1978 31' Sovereign
Oakley , California
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,197
They already are. Where do you think the parts content comes from?
__________________
Phrunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 08:00 AM   #68
Rivet Master

 
Currently Looking...
1995 36' Classic 36
Ludington , Michigan
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post

These are not illustrations of poor quality, just poor execution, something that can be taken care of with an attitude adjustment...

Bob
Bingo! I know that there have been some design, fit, and finish issues but that wasn't my gripe when I started the thread. Point being that these are craftsmanship, pride, sloppy habits, attitude, and work ethics of individuals. At work I say we should have hired this guy's mother to clean up after him. Sorry, but there is no excuse for leaving your trash behind.

Sawdust, for an example, creates a lot of surface area for bacteria and mold to thrive if the area gets wet. It traps and retains moisture. I see it all the time in remodel jobs when sawdust and debris left in walls and ceilings are the source of problems. It takes so little time and effort to clean up your mess.

I'm happy that a few agree with my obsolete view of work ethics and pride as a craftsman. Even if "the man" is putting it to you, how can doing sloppy or inferior work improve your future prospects? You end up trapped by a bad attitude and reputation.

I do really enjoy my Airstream, the design concept, and the way it functions. No product is perfect and Airstream is better than many.
__________________
Kota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 08:30 AM   #69
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Bingo! I know that there have been some design, fit, and finish issues but that wasn't my gripe when I started the thread. Point being that these are craftsmanship, pride, sloppy habits, attitude, and work ethics of individuals.

.....

I'm happy that a few agree with my obsolete view of work ethics and pride as a craftsman. Even if "the man" is putting it to you, how can doing sloppy or inferior work improve your future prospects? You end up trapped by a bad attitude and reputation.
....
Dakota,

I mostly agree with you though in an organization it starts at the top. Leaders are supposed to lead.

I don't think of your view of ethics is obsolete. There are companies that produce good and even excellent products.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 08:50 AM   #70
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
I'm happy that a few agree with my obsolete view of work ethics and pride as a craftsman. Even if "the man" is putting it to you, how can doing sloppy or inferior work improve your future prospects? You end up trapped by a bad attitude and reputation.
I haven't lost all hope that that your "obsolete" view not will survive in today's environment.
If not, we're in more trouble than just shoddy Airstream practices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
Dakota,

I mostly agree with you though in an organization it starts at the top. Leaders are supposed to lead.

I don't think of your view of ethics is obsolete. There are companies that produce good and even excellent products.

Gene
Couldn't agree more.

In other words "trickle down" ethics.

I like to think it worked pretty well for me growing up....

Bob
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.