Craftsmanship and work ethics

[Denis4x4]

I factory ordered our Safari.25 FB in January of 2006. At that time, dealers were selling every AS on the lot and discounts were few and far between. One has to wonder if the 2008 Recession was a wake up call for AS when sales dropped and perceived value became an important customer watchword. In reading through similar threads, it seems that there are fewer complaints about post-recession Airstreams than those built prior to the fall of 2008.

Sometimes I think that it might make sense to have have a seperate thread devoted to late model Airstreams. The mindset of AS owners with models built 20, 30 or even 50 years ago is considerably different than first time buyers with units less than 10 years old.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by Denis4x4

I factory ordered our Safari.25 FB in January of 2006. At that time, dealers were selling every AS on the lot and discounts were few and far between. One has to wonder if the 2008 Recession was a wake up call for AS when sales dropped and perceived value became an important customer watchword. In reading through similar threads, it seems that there are fewer complaints about post-recession Airstreams than those built prior to the fall of 2008.

Sometimes I think that it might make sense to have have a seperate thread devoted to late model Airstreams. The mindset of AS owners with models built 20, 30 or even 50 years ago is considerably different than first time buyers with units less than 10 years old.

You may be right. Our 2011 Serenity had no major QC issues and was reasonably clean (apart from sawdust) even in the hidden areas, like under the fridge. The stapling of the Velcro for the dinette seat cushions did look like it had been done with an office stapler, and the mounting of the mechanism for the dinette table required refitting with longer screws (both issues remedied by the dealer), but that was all. Maybe more stuff will come to light later but so far it's not been too bad. My beef on quality is the standard of the bought in items, but that's not what this thread's about.

[Kota]

Originally Posted by MrUKToad

You may be right. Our 2011 Serenity had no major QC issues and was reasonably clean (apart from sawdust) even in the hidden areas, like under the fridge. The stapling of the Velcro for the dinette seat cushions did look like it had been done with an office stapler, and the mounting of the mechanism for the dinette table required refitting with longer screws (both issues remedied by the dealer), but that was all. Maybe more stuff will come to light later but so far it's not been too bad. My beef on quality is the standard of the bought in items, but that's not what this thread's about.

The Airstream body and the Spartan chassis were very professionally built. The mating of the two and installation on the accessories was very amateur at best. I'm an electrical engineer and aircraft mechanic. Today I straightened out another problem. The condenser fans for the dash a/c were wired to the coach battery instead of the engine batteries. It was causing the fans to run anytime the ignition was turned on and an intended tie between the two systems. Plus the temp and pressure compressor cut out were totally bypassed. That's the 3rd major factory oopsy I've had to correct.

[rodsterinfl]

I do not agree with the idea that the newer ones are built with higher quality control but the idea of cutting costs is all too familiar. Anyone who attended the Tampa Super RV show and also the Sarasota Rally and visited the 27 (or possibly) 28 foot rear bed model AND walked around the bed would agree that something was wrong with that one. The floor popped and moved up and down on the left side of the bed as you walked in to the bedroom. There were other things too like crooked lockers on another rig. I like Airstream but I do not see better quality in the newer product. My opinion is that little has changed. At the rally we were told at the Factory session that they were putting neoprene washers under rivets the last couple years but other than mostly layout, I would say that most changes would be to make it less cost to build. The washer comment came when woman in the front of the room shared about her leaking Flying Cloud. As a matter of fact, I noticed that the International on display had canvas curtains instead of the enclosed shades. I asked about it and was told by a rep that those went out a few years back- news to me. When I was shopping those were in every International and I thought they were part of the trim package of that model. I guess they WERE. One of the small units on display had filliform corrosion on the handle and the side left of the door. We can and do enjoy our AS but we should not let up sharing how to improve them, point out the issues to AS and watch for responsive action.

[Phrunes]

Don't want to rain on the parade here, but this is the byproduct of high production. Pride in workmanship is there, but it is summarily suppressed by management. At the end of the day its how much product did we push thru the funnel, and if it is enough, the stock price goes up. There is no longer value in workmanship, only in the shareholders portfolio. Sad.

[rodsterinfl]

Phrunes, you are dead on. That is why, as a consumer, you cannot be just blindly brand loyal- expecting quality just by name alone. Choose what you want but inspect it carefully before signing on the dotted line. It is that way with just about anything.

[dlb435]

I did a little checking. Thor Industries (Airstreams owners) cut the work force from 400 to 160. This year they have been bringing back laid off employees. It's no wonder quality is down. Less than half of the workers have to do all of the work. The CEO took home 1.6 millon dollars.

[Phrunes]

Fire the CEO and they could have paid 25 workers a living wage.

Some products trancend a "bad economy". There are plenty of folks like the CEO who have been unaffected. Stands to reason then that they should boost production...not alienate paying customers with the cash to buy. ECON101.

[rodsterinfl]

One has to wonder if the 2008 Recession was a wake up call for AS when sales dropped and perceived value became an important customer watchword. In reading through similar threads, it seems that there are fewer complaints about post-recession Airstreams than those built prior to the fall of 2008.

It would be logical to assume that was due to fewer sales. All in all though, I still believe Airstream is "one of" the better built RV trailer options.

[TouringDan]

I think the core values of the workers are not what they used to be, but I mostly blame the management (QA). I see a similar problem as a home inspector. You would not believe the shoddy workmanship when you look in the attic at the duct work of the hvac system, even in million dollar homes. This work is done by the lowest of the employees but they can get away with doing shoddy work because the boss does not do an adequate job of QA.

I believe that the guys that assembled my 66 Tradewind had much higher core values than the workers doing the assembly work on the newer Airstreams. Materials were higher quality also. Remember, in 1966 all the parts were made in the USA.

I would like to believe that the quality is higher than it was just a few years ago, but I really don't know. Airstream seems to sell all the trailers they build, and they don't seem to have any real competition. If I were considering a new Airstream, I really don't know what other trailer I would look at in terms of competition.

My biggest complaint in the new Airstreams is the lack of a rot free flooring material, cheap vinyl floor covering materials and the lack of disc brakes.

Dan

[idroba]

I have had many used Airstreams (and Argosy's) over the past 34 years. When I did repairs or renovations on all of them (the earliest was a 1954 Whale Tail) I found factory middens of rivet ends, little parts, sawdust, and so on. Holds for the vent pipes to the tanks were always much larger than the pipe, and no sealant used so mice entrance has been an issue. In other words, some build quality things have been around the factory(s) for years.

In the past couple of months I have inspected 3 different 2013 FC 20' at three different dealers. Each seemed to be clean in even the under bed/couch/cabinet areas. The only issues I saw were the poor flimsy blind hold downs and the Cable inlet labeled on one unit as the 120 volt power input, a sticker issue.

I have a 2014 20' FC on order now, and it should be in sometime in June, they say. I am hoping that my first ever new one will be reasonably well made and the issues will be minor, or easily repaired. If it looks as good as the three 2013's I have inspected, I will be happy.

I will keep you informed on what I see.

[mefly2]

We've had construction schtuff left in all of our TT up tp and including AS ... why would those folks be any different? Apparently brooms and vacuums are a rare commodity in all RV / TT manufacturing facilities .... we still find that the AS we've owned minimize that negative characteristic... not perfect, but much better than the two SOBs we've towed.

[Phrunes]

Dan,
Ductwork? Who uses that these days? Here in the Goldigger State, they use insulated premade wireform ducting. Uncool it, make the haphazard run between joists and rafters and tape it to the collector. 10 minute job. I don't blame the installer though, they have unreasonable production expectations put upon them by a contractor who was the low bid.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Phrunes

Dan,
Ductwork? Who uses that these days? Here in the Goldigger State, they use insulated premade wireform ducting. Uncool it, make the haphazard run between joists and rafters and tape it to the collector. 10 minute job. I don't blame the installer though, they have unreasonable production expectations put upon them by a contractor who was the low bid.

Which is demanded by the customers who expect everything for the lowest price. I call it the WalMart mentality.

“There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey.”_John Ruskin 1819-1900

Aaron

[ROBERT CROSS]

......who have posted about QC on the newer AS's be advised that the Factory got very involved several years ago, the kitchen got to hot and they left

I'm sure they still visit...on the stealth.

Fill a tall glass, get comfortable and be enlightened.

Town Hall Meeting.

Bob

[perryg114]

The service personnel are graded according to how many complete jobs they do in a day. Quality is not even on the radar and this is a corporate policy. It is part of the do it now do it quick, get your money and run mentality. It is the same mentality that caused our financial crises. This makes a house of cards and resulting bankruptcy.

Perry

[richinny]

the days of Johnny Alonso are gone.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f492...nzo-40088.html

maybe it the workers had to sign their work and the public got the list, things might improve.

in all fairness many of the workers come and go as the demand changes. often the caring and concerned worker has lower production than the guy that 'gets the job done'. guess who gets called back when production ramps up?

i salute johnny alonzo for having pride in his work.

[perryg114]

Unions do a lot to squash any hopes of being promoted based on merit. Unions promote based on time served and placeing workers in positions they are most suited to does not happen. Any senior employee can boot a more qualified employee from his position if he wants that spot. Employees in this enviroment have little reason to work as hard as they can because the pay is the same no matter how hard they work. Maybe not all unions are the same but the union folks around here tell me this is how it works.

You also can't fire someone for doing a bad job. The unions will protect them. The good employees know this and have no incentive to work harder.

Perry

[srpuywa]

This is what happens when you build a product on a assembly line, once it leaves an assigned work area, it's somebody elses problem to fix or ignore.

[Phrunes]

There are many ways to incentivize a union workforce. Merit bonus based on QC, Flatrate, etc.

Unfortunately no one has asked how do the Executives get measured on qualiy their performance.

Quality begins and ends at the top.