Alternator

[marydixon555]

I considered posting this question under "electrical" but this might be a better place to begin.

My engine is a 1990 model 454TBI upgraded to a 1979 28' Excella Motorhome. Prior to the upgrade and afterward, the alternator has failed several times. It is a 105 amp AC Delco with a lifetime warranty but changing it is no laughing matter .

I understand alternators fail but I felt there's more here than meets the eye and decided to trouble shoot the system for signs of a cause(s). One thing stands out; a regulator made by Ford mounted above the engine in the doghouse. It was there when I bought the vehicle and remained after the engine was professionally replaced. This alternator should have a built in regulator so I wonder if for some reason these vehicles were equipped with an external Ford regulator. It makes sense that a part pron to failure would be relocated for accessibility in a design where the alternator is not readily accessible. Could this be why? Is anyone familiar with this setup? Did they commonly do this with P30 Motorhomes for better access? Why, why...?

Sometimes that is the only question.

Mary

[choctawmel]

Yes. At the time there wasn't a (small size) 110amp alternators, so they used an after market alternator build in an old delco housing with the ford regulator. If your 'upgrade' came with the 105A delco w/internal regulator the ford regulator wouldn't have a need and may cause harm.

[idroba]

In addition, many "rebuilt" alternators are very very poor quality, even with lifetime warranty. I would highly recommend you be sure you are getting a brand new alternator. It will be more costly, but the replacement cost in labor is the deciding factor in the overall expense.

[marydixon555]

Accessing the alternator wasn't too bad except for the very heavy radiator. Didn't have a cherry-picker or block and tackle so I used my heavy gauge adjustable ladder and ratcheting straps to hoist it out at a slight angle (ladder angle was a bonus). You can be certain I will repair/replace anything that looks amiss while the front end is open.

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by marydixon555

Accessing the alternator wasn't too bad except for the very heavy radiator. Didn't have a cherry-picker or block and tackle so I used my heavy gauge adjustable ladder and ratcheting straps to hoist it out at a slight angle (ladder angle was a bonus). You can be certain I will repair/replace anything that looks amiss while the front end is open.

I'm surprised that you have to remove the radiator to get to the alternator but I have a diesel so I'm just guessing. The thing I would suggest is that you take your radiator into a shop and have it boiled and rodded. The radiator itself should not be that terribly heavy, however as they get older they get clogged up with dirt, rust and stuff and that adds a great deal of weight. I realize "very heavy" is hard to define but cleaning the radiator now might save a lot of hassle down the road.

Cheers, Dan

[marydixon555]

Yes, the only way to remove the alternator is to remove the front grille, radiator etc. It is possible to access the alternator by completely removing the entire dash and doghouse and labor intensive but then you really don't have great access even then. I should post some photos. The radiator weighs about 150lbs and incorporates cooling for the transmission. It is surrounded by a frame from which it cannot be removed while mounted to the vehicle and must be inserted and attached as a unit. This adds to the weight. Keep in mind, nothing is standard about this coach. It is a 1979 with a new fuel injected engine and an over-sized radiator added to keep it from over-heating. It's pretty "cool" literally and has never been hotter than 195 degrees in all types of conditions. Weight considered, it doesn't take long to access the front of the engine this way. You're right about cleaning the radiator while it is out. Thanks.

Mary (cheers to you to my friend)

[PeterH-350LE]

Mary, you must have had some major modifications done to your engine and Radiator. I used to own a 1979 28' Excella for over 10 years and have replaced everything short of the engine. The Alternator was one of the easier things to replace, easy accessible while sitting under the passenger wheel well.
The only way I ever was able to remove the Radiator, which I did twice, was to raise the vehicle and pull it out from underneath.
I may be mistaken, but the Ford regulator you mention is a starter relay and not a regulator, but do not take my word for it.
Is your battery Isolator functioning as intended?

[marydixon555]

You're right, I've spent more money than I wish to disclose.

I sandblasted the frame, replaced all floor, wiring and fuse systems. Replaced polybutylene water pipes with pex and repaired/replaced black and grey water pipes as needed. Other: New heater, AC, generator, tankless water heater, custom designed integrated AC/Heater (driver compartment), new custom designed dash, all new gauges and a few extras, led lighting (regulated), new fuel injected engine (had to go through the California DMV for that one and no fun), new power/heated mirrors, new wiper system, motors including a single switch integrating them with 2 speeds, 3 intermittent levels and wash function (very expensive option), replaced the univolt with an intellicharger and relocated it to the basement area as well as the deep cycle batteries by the driver (separate areas), 4 deep cycle batteries rather than two joined in parallel, replaced the old P30 rear end (with a better design after dropping on busy Southern California freeways twice), new over-sized radiator/transmission cooler, new furniture. The list goes on but this covers the big stuff. Other than my two grandchildren, I have two passions and they are flying and working on my motorhome. The nicest thing about the motorhome is that with all the upgrades it looks original to the untrained eye. Making major improvements while retaining the original look and feel is not easy and takes a lot of planning. For every hour of work I have put into my project, I have spent 20 times as much in research and development. I've done most of the work myself but had the engine professionally replaced though I designed the wiring.

Anyone here interested in professional sandblasting equipment? Ha, ha, that purchase set me back a bit but not nearly as much as having someone else do the work.

Mary

[dadstoy]

Mary, I would love to see lots of pics of your work!

[marydixon555]

I'll get around to posting photos when the weather turns cold. During the warm months, I spend most my time on the motorhome. I have taken some shots during different stages but in retrospect wish I had taken more.

[perryg114]

When the alternator fails, take it to an alternator shop and have them determine how it failed. There are regulators, diodes, bearings, brushes that can fail. If the same component keeps failing like diodes or regulators then you may have poor air flow and that is causing failures. Bearings go out a lot in cheap rebuilds because the replacements are made in China. You will hear the noise before it fails if it is a bearing ,usually the shaft has play with the belt loose. If it is just bearings failing take it to an alternator shop and tell them to put American made bearings in it.

Perry

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by marydixon555

You're right, I've spent more money than I wish to disclose.

I sandblasted the frame, replaced all floor, wiring and fuse systems. Replaced polybutylene water pipes with pex and repaired/replaced black and grey water pipes as needed. Other: New heater, AC, generator, tankless water heater, custom designed integrated AC/Heater (driver compartment), new custom designed dash, all new gauges and a few extras, led lighting (regulated), new fuel injected engine (had to go through the California DMV for that one and no fun), new power/heated mirrors, new wiper system, motors including a single switch integrating them with 2 speeds, 3 intermittent levels and wash function (very expensive option), replaced the univolt with an intellicharger and relocated it to the basement area as well as the deep cycle batteries by the driver (separate areas), 4 deep cycle batteries rather than two joined in parallel, replaced the old P30 rear end (with a better design after dropping on busy Southern California freeways twice), new over-sized radiator/transmission cooler, new furniture. The list goes on but this covers the big stuff. Other than my two grandchildren, I have two passions and they are flying and working on my motorhome. The nicest thing about the motorhome is that with all the upgrades it looks original to the untrained eye. Making major improvements while retaining the original look and feel is not easy and takes a lot of planning. For every hour of work I have put into my project, I have spent 20 times as much in research and development. I've done most of the work myself but had the engine professionally replaced though I designed the wiring.

Anyone here interested in professional sandblasting equipment? Ha, ha, that purchase set me back a bit but not nearly as much as having someone else do the work.

Mary

That's truly remarkable. There I was thinking that I did a lot of work to my 79, but compared to your list, I barely scratched the surface.
But when I put mine on the market, I had no problem selling it, once knowledgeable buyers realized what all I had done.
My compliments!

[marydixon555]

Thanks Peter. I've actually don'e a lot more than what I've listed. I did remove the radiator and will post some photos. Mine is actually a lot larger and is mounted inside a frame from which it cannot be removed while attached to the vehicle. I didn't have a block and tackle so I just put a very strong configurable aluminum ladder in front and hoisted it out and up at an angle; not difficult except for the weight. The alternator is something that can be removed from the passenger-side wheel-well by a male or female less endowed than I am. I did replace the battery isolator with a larger one and was wondering if, perhaps, that might be the problem. Now that I have easy access, I'll recheck the wiring and pay a mechanic to check over my work. I found one who teaches at the Technical College who'll drop by and check it over for me.

I was also considering Perry's line of reasoning (thanks Perry!) and thought about misalignment (bearing failure) and heat related failure. I see where I can add an air intake while I'm at it to improve airflow to the TBI and improve mpgs. At the moment, I'm checking and cleaning everything and will grease everything while I have easy access. Oh, the fun never stops!

Thanks everyone for the input, I'll update what I find out.

Mary

[marydixon555]

Thanks Peter. I forgot about the Ford Starter Solenoid. The GM solenoid would have problems when it was very hot. The remote solenoid was added when I had added the Thorley Headers to avoid heat failure. Incidentally, Doug Thorley lives a few miles from me and lost that company in the divorce so now he makes "Doug's Headers." Gratefully, the alternator checked out fine but I have found some wiring issues and hope that'll fix the problem. I think I'll do what you said about the radiator too! Awesome people here! Crazy enough to love their Airstreams as much as I do.

[PeterH-350LE]

Originally Posted by marydixon555

...... I think I'll do what you said about the radiator too! ......

Being able to pull the radiator from underneath lets you keep the A/C condensor and Trans cooler, if equipped, in place without disturbing them.

[marydixon555]

I'd post a photo of me pulling out my hair but it wouldn't be a pretty picture! Everything is reconnected but the problem still exists. Voltmeter shows the battery level but not charging. Several gauges stop working when I turn on the lights. Someone please help me, I don't look good bald! I'm thinking I need to dampen my pride and pay a mechanic to double check my work and run some diagnostics. Short? Bad Ground? Insufficient ground for lights etc? Bad or incorrect battery isolator connection? Obi wan kenobi are you out there? You're my only hope!

[marydixon555]

Well, now the alternator and battery isolator are working properly but some of the new instruments were still dropping off as soon as a load was put on the system, i.e., lights etc.

I used a wheel type metal brush to buff the vehicle frame outside the firewall behind the instrument panel then ran individual 14 gauge grounds from the problem instruments to the frame an inch apart. I also used some dielectric lube on the grounds. Problem resolved!

Cannot over-stress the importance of a good DC ground! -Mary

[dadstoy]

Originally Posted by marydixon555

Well, now the alternator and battery isolator are working properly but some of the new instruments were still dropping off as soon as a load was put on the system, i.e., lights etc.

I used a wheel type metal brush to buff the vehicle frame outside the firewall behind the instrument panel then ran individual 14 gauge grounds from the problem instruments to the frame an inch apart. I also used some dielectric lube on the grounds. Problem resolved!

Cannot over-stress the importance of a good DC ground! -Mary

Mary, I have the same problem with my gauges dropping off when I turn on the headlights. Could you give me some more details on exactly what you did to solve the problem...I want to see if that solves my issue as well. Thanks!

[dadstoy]

I tapped into the ground wire running serially to all the gauges and ran this to a new body ground. Problem solved, the gauges no longer drop off when the headlights are turned on! The gauge lights are brighter too!

Thanks for the tip Mary!

[Gregsch]

Mary, I have had some trouble with my alternator on my 1979 24' Excella. I swapped out the alternator by jacking up the front , removing the pasenger side front wheel and going thru the wheel well. Its not real handy and it is hard to see what you are doing but , it only takes about an hour.