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Old 12-15-2005, 08:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 47WeeWind
RichardT:

Excellent digging to locate and revive that May, 2005 "pre-proprietary" Henschen axle rating data for 22' Airstream trailers. Good job!

To build on that data, I have located the base weight of those 22' trailers for the years 1961 to 1966. All my weight data came from the same souce, an old "blue book" of used trailer resale values published in 1967, so it is consistent over those years. However, I think the weights given below are the base, or lowest, weight for a 22' trailer, because in some years the "park model" standard Airstream, the mid level self contained Land Yacht, and the loaded International 22 footers all have the same weight given below. So I think actual weights would have been higher and the following ratios of axle rating divided by trailer weight were actually lower for the more expensive trailers.

With that caveat, here is some more Airstream knowledge to share. The numbers given for Trailr is the base weight in pounds and the number given under Axle is the axle rating in pounds. The ratio is axle rating/trailer weight:

Year Lng Trailr Axle Ratio

1961 22' 2890 3600 1.25
1962 22' 3050 3600 1.18
1963 22' 3050 4000 1.31
1964 22' 3100 4000 1.29
1965 22' 3382 5000 1.48
1966 22' 3360 5000 1.49

These trailer base weight to axle rating ratios are applicable only to single axle trailers, not tandem axle trailers. The ratios for the latest years, 1965 and 1966, may help readers determine a target ratio to shoot for when ordering a new axle for their vintage single axle Airstream. Ratios for earlier years, 1961-1964, apparently have proven inadequate over time, suggests Inland Andy. Enjoy!
Fred you are awsome, that is excellent information!

Here is what I have decieded to do and why

I do not wish to deviate from the original wheel tire size which is 6.50X13", the closest modern tire that I wish to run is a C rated Goodyear Marathon ST 175/80 R13 and that tire has a Max load of 1360 pounds, the same as my KH 13" wheels rating.

The maximum load carrying capacity of any assembly is limited to the lowest load rating of any individual component selected. I will go with a 2700 pound axle rating a ratio of 1.44 (Trailer weight dry 1875 pounds)which puts me close to the ratio of the newer trailers.

That is an increase of 200 pounds to the original design.

The original starting Angle of 20 degrees will be changed to 22.5 degrees, a small increase and consider standard today.

I belive this will give me what I want and need.

I will let you know when and who I order my axle from and take pictures of the install etc...

RichardT

PS I wish to thank Andy for getting me thinking about improving on the original design instead of just going with the 1963 ratings, it is to bad that he is bound to withhold this type of information as it is in the interest of safety to get this stuff right. I am glad that these forums exist so information can flow freely from one member to another.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:21 PM   #30
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Richard,

It sounds like you have a great plan of action formulated. I look forward to seeing the end result.

Frederic
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:31 PM   #31
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I think you're probably right on with #2700 axel. I moved up to a #3500 axel on my Caravel, which is slightly heavier than the Bambi. That's #500 more capacity than the original axel. I was also told that it would 'kill' my trailer, but I have been very happy with it. The ride is much better and we have several thousand miles on the new Dexter axel with no problems. But this is just my personal experience.

Good luck with your project!
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Old 12-16-2005, 06:15 AM   #32
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Thumbs up That's the best kind Stef!

I, for one, tend to appreciate "personal experience".

It's hard to beat folks that have "been there/done that". Perhaps some other Bambi owners can chime in, that have changed their axles and share "personal experiences", about axle upgrades that they have made and the results of the changes. My guess is, sometimes things went well and other times they did not.

Great Thread,
Henry
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Old 12-16-2005, 07:19 AM   #33
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weigh your Bambi first...

Richard, I had a '61 Bambi that had a bad axle, but it didn't get towed far (except for one miserable trip to Arizona, and the fact that it was miserable was directly tied to a number of issues none of which involved the axle of the Bambi... )

I DID do an axle transplant on an '87 Burro widebody last year, and what a difference it made. It came stock with a Dexter #9 axle with four-bolt wheels and no brakes. The factory literature rated the trailer at 1700lbs dry, but realistically as equipped the trailer weighed 2,000 lbs. In other words, it maxed that axle at dry curb weight. After just 15 years, the frame was resting on the axle as the axle was overloaded. I replaced it with a Dexter #10 axle rubbered at 3500 lbs with a 22.5* down angle. The new axle had EZ Lube bearings, brakes and 5-lug wheels. It raised the trailer about 5" with the "Hi-Lift" (1" higher) bracket option over the worn-out stock axle height.

Most of the new 16' and 17' fiberglass trailers come with either Dexter or AL-KO (my current '02 Scamp 16' Custom Deluxe weighs about 2600lbs dry with the honey oak interior and has an AL-KO 3500 lb axle from the factory) axles and most are rubbered between 3,000 and 3,500 lbs.

I recognize that there is a difference in construction between a molded fiberglass trailer and a riveted Airstream, but it's interesting to note that the fiberglass trailers don't bounce enough on the heavier axle to move things around inside at all, and there is no apparent jarring of the trailer with the 3500 lb axles. If I get contents shift, it's generally from driveways or deep ruts, not road travel. Many of the folks who have these 16' and 17' fiberglass trailers have upgraded to 3500 lb axles when replacing the axles, and I've not heard anything negative from anyone, even the folks who actually have trailers that have (actual) curb weights of around 1800lbs. In fact, all of the experiences that have been shared have paralleled Stephanie's and mine. They've all raved about how much better the trailer rides and handles.

I think if I were going to re-axle my '61 Bambi at this point, knowing what I know now, I'd take it to the nearest scale and weigh it for an accurate curb weight, and then rubber it about 800-1,000 lbs heavier than the dry weight calls for. That will allow for full tanks, food, and another 300-400 lbs and of 'stuff', and still leave a couple of hundred pound margin of error before you hit the axle gross weight max.

And I agree with your selection of the 22.5* down angle.

You also indicated that you want to stay with the original wheel size... I presume you ARE however, contemplating new wheels. If you're changing out the axles, you might as well update the wheels as well.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Roger
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Old 12-16-2005, 10:08 AM   #34
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And read Dexters "disclaimer".

Andy
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:04 AM   #35
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Lawyer talk. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
And read Dexters "disclaimer".

Andy
I don't think Dexter's "disclaimer" is unusual.

Here are two disclaimers. Can you guess which one belongs to Dexter, and which on belongs to Airstream?

Sample 1:

The materials may contain inaccuracies and typographical errors. Vendor does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the materials or the reliability of any advice, opinion, statements, or other information displayed or distributed through the site.

This site, the information, materials and operation of the site are provided "as-is" without any representation or warranty, express or implied, including, but not limited to, any implied warranty of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. Some jurisdictions do not allow for the exclusion of implied warranties so the above exclusions may not apply to you.


Sample 2:

The Site, and all materials in this Site, are provided "as is" and, to the fullest extent permitted by law, are provided without warranties of any kind either express or implied. This means, without limitation, that VENDOR DOES NOT WARRANT that the Site is fit for any particular purpose; that the functions contained in the materials in the Site will be uninterrupted; that defects will be corrected; that the Site is free of viruses and other harmful components or that the Site is accurate, error free or reliable.

You acknowledge that VENDOR, its parents and affiliates together with their respective employees, agents, directors, officers and shareholders, IS NOT LIABLE for any delays, inaccuracies, failures, errors, omissions, interruptions, deletions, defects, viruses, communication line failures or for the theft, destruction, damage or unauthorized access to your computer system or network.
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Old 12-16-2005, 02:37 PM   #36
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13" wheels

From bitter experience with my Scamp 5th-wheel, I know that 13" tires, when run within but near specifications, have a very high failure rate. According to the book, the Scamp was within the tire limits, but just so.

I modified the Scamp by cutting out fiberglass to enlarge the wheel openings and changed to 14" wheels. Voila! No more blowouts and tread separations.
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:11 PM   #37
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Quote:
"Records clearly show, that Airstream, in time, increased the axle capacity on almost every same length trailer.

Why?

Safety and performance, that was dictated by history and technology.

Andy"

The WEIGHT per foot of Airstreams also steadily increased over the years

Sergei
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Old 12-16-2005, 08:53 PM   #38
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While we have the attention of some members on AXLE related questions can anyone out there help me understand the ratings for my 1976 Argosy 24?

The manual says GVWR is 5800 lbs. but the Gross Axle Weight Rating is shown as only 5200 lbs.

Why the 600 pound difference? Is it made up by the 560 pound Factory Tongue Weight listed?

The aluminum plaque at the front roadside is no longer clearly visible. Each axle is rated at 2000 # something. The manual doesn’t show the individual rating on each axle. Anyone know the correct number for the Front and Rear axles?

The manual also says the factory weight was 3620 pounds. We weighed the trailer, dry, just before starting the current re-model. It was 3500 # even and all the original equipment was there. Were original published statistics reliable?

Sergei
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Old 12-16-2005, 09:24 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe
While we have the attention of some members on AXLE related questions can anyone out there help me understand the ratings for my 1976 Argosy 24?

The manual says GVWR is 5800 lbs. but the Gross Axle Weight Rating is shown as only 5200 lbs.

Why the 600 pound difference? Is it made up by the 560 pound Factory Tongue Weight listed?
Yes that is part of it, and the rotating assembly is not considered in the axle capacities.

Quote:
The aluminum plaque at the front roadside is no longer clearly visible. Each axle is rated at 2000 # something. The manual doesn’t show the individual rating on each axle. Anyone know the correct number for the Front and Rear axles?
IIRC they are rated at 2600# each, the front axle and rear axle are rated the same.

Quote:
The manual also says the factory weight was 3620 pounds. We weighed the trailer, dry, just before starting the current re-model. It was 3500 # even and all the original equipment was there. Were original published statistics reliable?

Sergei
The specs were pretty close you are only looking at a difference of 120 pounds, did you have full LP tanks and a battery on board? Mine weighed within 75# of the manual listed weight...

Aaron
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:01 PM   #40
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Aaron:

Thanks for the imput. Now I understand that the Axle Rating does not include the weight of the wheels and tires but the GVWR rating naturally does.

What does IIRC mean?

LP tanks and battery were both there. I was surprised that the actual was LESS than the factory, not more.

It's not a big number,as you say. I was just curious.

BTW, we last corresponded about toilets and holding tanks.

I've decided to move the existing grey forward about 20" to make room for a new black UNDER THE FLOOR at the rear.

We'll install a separate second grey, about 26 gallons, between the axles to serve the kitchen sink alone.

I think I'll get the new CONCERTO residence-like toilet by SeaLand.


Sergei
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Old 12-16-2005, 11:25 PM   #41
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IIRC - If I recall correctly.

Bill
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Old 12-17-2005, 11:10 AM   #42
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Looking more deeply into this I now realize that we did not get the trailer weight so much as we got the weight on the axles.

We weighed the trailer on the local farm scales while it was attached to the tow vehicle.

That would have given weight on the axles more than it would have given the actual weight of the trailer.

These forums are wonderful for sharing and learning.

Thanks.

Sergei
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