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Old 04-02-2019, 10:03 AM   #29
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Awesome!

Can you make (or buy) an inline breakout harness?
If you can find the injector connector part numbers and they are still available I might be able to help.
Were you thinking about something like this KENT MOORE TOOL J-44602-5-3 FUEL INJECTOR TEST ADAPTER ?

I'm not sure if this is the model will fit my injectors or not. Something like this would be great for splicing and testing.
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Old 04-02-2019, 10:47 AM   #30
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Ok, got the parts coming to make a breakout adapter. I bought a NOID light and a injector pigtail adapter. I'll rework the NOID light to connect it to the pigtail which will allow me to splice in the Zemco sensor wiring.

I should have it ready in a week or two. In the mean time I'll go ahead and see about installing the driveshaft speed sensor kit.

Brad
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Old 04-02-2019, 01:10 PM   #31
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Ok, got the parts coming to make a breakout adapter. I bought a NOID light and a injector pigtail adapter. I'll rework the NOID light to connect it to the pigtail which will allow me to splice in the Zemco sensor wiring.

I should have it ready in a week or two. In the mean time I'll go ahead and see about installing the driveshaft speed sensor kit.

Brad
Awesome
Also, pictures? Because I have no idea what a NOID light is, and im curious what your adapter will look like
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Old 04-02-2019, 01:24 PM   #32
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Good stuff!


Brad, I'm planning to mount my speed sensor magnets on the trans brake drum, and bring the bracket off a transmission bolt somewhere so the whole assembly is fixed and moves together.
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Old 04-02-2019, 01:32 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Magnet18 View Post
Awesome
Also, pictures? Because I have no idea what a NOID light is, and im curious what your adapter will look like
NOID light

injector pigtail

Basically I'm going to break the NOID light so the light doesn't function, connect the pigtail to the two pins of the NOID light, connect the NOID light pins to the Argosy TBI harness and then plug the pigtail connector onto the injector in the Argosy. I'll then be able to connect the sensor wires from the Zemco board to the two pins from the NOID light. Kind of a Rub Goldberg arrangement but it should work.

My only other concern is whether or not the board you're building will add any load or resistance to the injector that would affect it's operation?

Brad
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Old 04-02-2019, 01:39 PM   #34
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Good stuff!

Brad, I'm planning to mount my speed sensor magnets on the trans brake drum, and bring the bracket off a transmission bolt somewhere so the whole assembly is fixed and moves together.
Steve,

Not having a brake drum (hmm, I wonder where it went?!) I'll just add the magnets to the fixed portion of the drive shaft which is supported by the carrier bearing and is connected directly the transmission.

My Argosy has a short 30" fixed drive shaft that connects to the transmission supported by a carrier bearing, then connects to the slip jointed drive shaft that connects to the pinion shaft of the differential.

I think it would be easier to fasten the magnets to the drive shaft than it would be to the brake drum.

Brad
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:09 PM   #35
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Ha, LOL.
Assumed that was a spare of something!



Yes, driveshaft is normal place.
The magnets had double sided tape on them if I remember correctly, and then little tabs for the securing wire they supply. Not sure how good that 35 yo double-sided will be now...

On my last setup, I had the magnets on the CV joint of my Mini... and I can tell you, THAT was not fun to fit!


Oh, and I found a box of Zemco units...

A-Hem... I may have been a little overzealous with my collecting...
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:03 PM   #36
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Injector wire taps

Gentlemen, on the issue of breakout harnesses and tapping the EFi injector harness, I have spent a seemingly daunting number of hours looking at the problem. Casper Electronics makes a number of harness adapters that could be spliced if you know your injector connector type (EV1, EV6, etc.), but no harness breakouts that I can find. Realize that in many installations, access is difficult and space is limited, particularly with TBi systems. In my case (Fitech Go EFI 400), I found single wire taps to be extremely effective. They function on the "needle jab" method often used for diagnosing complex wired systems or adding daughter boards. These gadgets carefully align the wire of interest with a fine probing sharp tip which pierces the insulation and provides contact for the secondary wire. They are readily removable when needed and the resulting hole in the insulation (only pierces from one side to the wire center) is readily sealed with silicone or PVC/vinyl cement, should you need to remove the tap. In general, these devices only pierce the insulation and move the wire to either side - in other words they don't significantly damage the target wire. The tapping connector is well sealed against moisture for both the tap and the secondary wire connection. Finally they take up little space and can be assembled in very tight places.

My favorite which includes three different wire sizes - you'll probably use the smallest:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A somewhat larger version that uses a flip approach is:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are also two wire units that could be used to tap the two injector lead wires with one tap, but I'd recommend the single. Finally, as you make a breakout cable to the Zemco adapter, I'd suggest using a shielded wire to about EMI pickup.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:36 AM   #37
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Gentlemen, on the issue of breakout harnesses and tapping the EFi injector harness, I have spent a seemingly daunting number of hours looking at the problem. Casper Electronics makes a number of harness adapters that could be spliced if you know your injector connector type (EV1, EV6, etc.), but no harness breakouts that I can find. Realize that in many installations, access is difficult and space is limited, particularly with TBi systems. In my case (Fitech Go EFI 400), I found single wire taps to be extremely effective. They function on the "needle jab" method often used for diagnosing complex wired systems or adding daughter boards. These gadgets carefully align the wire of interest with a fine probing sharp tip which pierces the insulation and provides contact for the secondary wire. They are readily removable when needed and the resulting hole in the insulation (only pierces from one side to the wire center) is readily sealed with silicone or PVC/vinyl cement, should you need to remove the tap. In general, these devices only pierce the insulation and move the wire to either side - in other words they don't significantly damage the target wire. The tapping connector is well sealed against moisture for both the tap and the secondary wire connection. Finally they take up little space and can be assembled in very tight places.

My favorite which includes three different wire sizes - you'll probably use the smallest:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A somewhat larger version that uses a flip approach is:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are also two wire units that could be used to tap the two injector lead wires with one tap, but I'd recommend the single. Finally, as you make a breakout cable to the Zemco adapter, I'd suggest using a shielded wire to about EMI pickup.
Hi Frank, welcome to Airforums

I guess I'm not a fan of any sort of wiring connector that pierces the insulation with the expectation that it's only going contact the wire and not cut anything. I've removed way to much PO wiring on vehicles where pierce type connectors where used that damaged the existing wire, some to the point where they broke apart in my hand.

I guess I would rather just take the time to build a breakout or adapter cable that performs the same function. Of course that's just my $0.02.....

Do you own an 82 240 or are you looking for one? I didn't realize Airstream made 240s after 79.

Brad
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:01 AM   #38
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Thanks for chiming in Frank (frank is the other guy I will be sending a test board to)

I agree the single needle type are far superior to the "slice n dice" type

IMO, the best way is to splice, wrapping the wires together with a much finer wire, solder, and heat shrink, potting the gap between the two wires with epoxy, but that's obviously for when committing.


Brad, on your question of will this load the injectors (I assume you meant injector drivers)
That's a great question, I don't think there's anything to worry about

This is the equivalent of putting about 100,000 ohms across the injector, which itself is about 10 ohms, so we're only sapping about a hundredth of a percent of the power

According to simulations the circuit works, and only draws a couple hundred microamps from the injector signals

Emi is something I hadn't thought of, and a good thought. A twisted shielded cable would benefit anything nearby (I'm more worried about injector signals messing up other things than I am about other things messing up this circuit)
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:15 AM   #39
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Brad, Generically I agree with you on damage to wires generated by the majority of the clip on taps used in automobile add-on wiring. These usually take the form of a cutting edge with a modest slot in the center. These slice through about 320 degrees of the wire surrounding insulation and cut throughout least 25 percent of the wire core or more since they are not sized to the wire gauge nor well aligned to the wire itself. The point probe is inherently better aligned to the centerline of the wire and - in cross-sections I have examined - push the wire to either side as opposed to the guillotine approach of the more common parts store units. In my case and I believe with both Ford and GM TBi bodies space is a serious premium unless the TBi unit and harness is removed from the vehicle to work on it. For the aftermarket FiTech self learning EFi systems, to access the injector plug requires significant disassembly. There are no FiTech breakout harnesses available and so this seemed a useful solution.

As to the 82 240, put me in the looking-for category. Two years ago, I just missed an 82 240 and was told by the seller that less than 10 were made in that year and that they were the last.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:25 AM   #40
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Rob, my EMI comment is related to the difficulty several users are having installing Fitech EFI systems on previously carbureted engines. Often there is little EMI shielding in the ignition systems and the Fitech computer is mounted in the throttle body. But it appears that the main EMI interference is effecting the Handheld Control Units mounted inside the driver cabin and connected by a long cable to the ECU at the throttle body. In several cases a braided wire shield over the connecting cables has eliminated the problem. But, I agree, here it isn't a problem - just overkill on my part. (plus I have a spool of shielded 20 gauge ...)
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:56 PM   #41
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Frank, the 24' motorhomes (Argosy or Classic) are almost as scarce as the 20' Argosy motorhomes. There aren't many of the 24s and from my perspective they are for the most part an ideal size. Big enough to not feel cramped inside yet small enough to maneuver in traffic and parking lots.

Oddly enough I have a 24' Argosy I recently towed out of the mountains and it's currently sitting by my shop. Even stranger it's vin number is within 3 digits of Tony's 24' Argosy.

Your Fitech sounds like an interesting system to work on. I've found the GM throttle body rather easy to work on. I mounted the PCM in the center of the dash behind the radio. If I'm not mistaken the wiring harness construction from the injectors back to the PCM features twisted pairs of wires. At least that's how the harness for the TR6 was manufactured.

I guess I've just never been of fan of intrusive type connectors. Should I decide to make the Zemco permanent I'll do a proper job of fabricating a new pigtail adapter. Actually I'll need to do it twice as I will likely add a Zemco to my TR6 as well since it's also fuel injected using the GM system.

Brad
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:14 PM   #42
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So while thinking about Brad's question I simulated about half the circuit in LTSpice (for no real reason), and I have a nit to scratch. Yall can ignore this unless you want to hear an EE jargon ramble.

I don't know why they tied two op-amp outputs together, as that seems like a no-no since opamp outputs can both sink and source current, and by design when one is sinking the other is sourcing, so I feel this risks eating your own signal

However, for the specific part used the source and sink characteristics are unbalanced, so it works

I would have tied them through a resistor divider and sampled in the middle, you're guaranteed to lose exactly half the signal, but you know it will be there.

That said the circuit works fine in simulation and hopefully in reality, and I won't pretend to have a lot of analog design experience. Just something for me to keep in mind if I decide to make changes.

Also the 12V to 5V power conversion via zener diode seems cheap, I'd just plop down a proper linear regulator, but it works and I suppose one could argue anything more is wasteful.

Just my musings
I'll probably simulate the full circuit just for kicks
I've half a mind to build an Arduino version of the Zemco
We'll see, one step at a time, first this
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