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Old 09-07-2004, 08:33 PM   #15
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I'm stuck...

Shown below is the backing nut that secures the hub on the bearings.

From what I've read, to seat the bearings, I tighten the nut to 50 foot-lbs, back off 1/4 turn, tighten until the hub just starts to stop turning freely, and then back off just until one of the lock slots aligns with a tab.

Any comments?

I would appreciate input on how to torque the backing nut - do I make a tool to fit the slots? - can I rent one? -- better off just buying one?

Anyone been here and figured it out already?

Thanks.
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Old 09-08-2004, 07:32 AM   #16
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You need a socket like the one below. You might be able to find a spanner but it has to be deep enough to get at the inner nut. There are different sizes, I would use a screw driver or punch and hammer to (carefully) take the outer nut off before I searched.

The caliper was hanging to wear one pad. In the other picture you need to clean the 2 machined surfaces at the arrows, both sides. Use a wire brush or wheel and put a light coat of chassis grease on all 4 surfaces on the mount and caliper before you reinstall. I would assemble it the first time with no pads and make sure the caliper moved smoothly.

I've always done bearings by feel, can't help with the torque. Make sure you rotate the hub as you tighten the nut. You will feel it start to tighten up, rock it back and forth a few times. It shouldn't drag but shouldn't be loose.

John
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Old 09-08-2004, 08:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH
.........
From what I've read, to seat the bearings, I tighten the nut to 50 foot-lbs, back off 1/4 turn, tighten until the hub just starts to stop turning freely, and then back off just until one of the lock slots aligns with a tab.
...........................
Dennis (Bubba),
Buy the tool!!
I have been there (on a previous MH with rear drums). Since you are getting new rotors, you also have new inner and outer bearings.
If you don't use the proper socket for torquing, the bearing will not seat properly
Been there, done that. After a few turns (going down the road) the bearing will seat and your rotor will be loose, causing your gear oil to leak. Yes, it happened to me. Very freaky situation.
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Old 09-09-2004, 03:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-79MH
Bubba....Buy the tool!!......
As an update to my “Brake Project” I hope to complete all of the brake work this weekend (IF I can get the new Brake Lines fabricated). Hopefully, I am now complete with the purchase and planning phases of this excercise.

So far, I can offer this - on purchases:

Cost for Brake Work

Scope – Change out curb side rotor, replace both rear calipers, change out all rubber brake hoses (front and rear), install new master cylinder.

New Rotor (curb side) $ 65.00

Rebuilt Caliper Driver Side $ 20.00

Rebuilt Caliper Curb Side $ 20.00

Premium Brake Pads Rear $ 65.00

New Master Cylinder $ 95.00

Spindle Socket for Axle Nut $ 20.00

Rotor Hub Rear Seal $ 25.00

Bearing Grease $ 5.00

Brake Caliper Slide Grease $ 10.00

DOT 4 Synthetic Brake Fluid $ 25.00

Synthetic Power Steering Fluid $ 10.00

Synthetic Axle Fluid $ 10.00

Rotor/Hub Press – Shop Charge $ 20.00

Brake Vacuum Bleed Tool $ 40.00


Total $430.00


The cost of the new Rubber Brake Lines (all to be replaced) has not yet been determined.

Also, to date, 6 hours of my time have been expended.


This entire project is a good example of “while you’re at it” philosophy.

I had to replace the rear caliper since I wasn’t really sure what caused the outside pad failure. Since I had to bleed the entire brake system, might as well replace all of the fluid. With new fluid, the 18 year old rubber hoses need to be tossed, “while I’m at it”, a NEW (not rebuilt) master cylinder will be added. The failure of the one brake pad has led to some pretty heavy preventative maintenance, but now I have a good base line, and one more “worry line” – the brake system – has been crossed off of the probable potential failure list on my “almost antique” 8 ton MoHo.

I have purchased Valvoline SynPower Synthetic Brake Fluid DOT 4. The new Brake Fluid will displace the existing brake fluid (which, BTW, looked pretty good – good color, normal odor).

The power steering fluid will be displaced with Valvoline's SynPower Power Steering Fluid since the brakes are operated by Chevy’s (in)famous “Hydroboost” system .

I think synthetics are at the point that they have proven themselves to be superior to crude derived refinery products. This will be the first time I have tried the synthetics – will keep all of you posted.
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH
As an update to my “Brake Project” I hope to complete all of the brake work this weekend (IF I can get the new Brake Lines fabricated). Hopefully, I am now complete with the purchase and planning phases of this excercise.......
All hope for finishing this weekend has vanished.......

Report on Screwup #1

Had to return the first hub socket purchased - No P-30 was listed anywhere on the list of hub sockets available (O'Reilly's, AutoZone, or NAPA)....the store manager and I gave it our best shot....first hub socket I brought home was one with 4 "Castles" as pictured in John's (74Argosy24MH) picture as posted previously.....the '86 P-32 has the same OD as most, but there are 6 "Castles" on the hub - not 4 as in John's picture...I smartened up a bit (should have taken John's advice to start with) and brought the axel nut with me on this second trip to the parts store....luckily, we found a match on the shelf -- listed as "3/4 ton 4 WD Hub".....go figure.

Now...I had the correct hub socket - things went together relatively smoothly - I cleaned and hand packed the inner and outer bearings with the new grease. No apparent damage or wear to the bearings, so I went back in with the original bearings - will let you know if that was a mistake or not.

The outer bearing rests on 4 raised "dimples" cut into the hub for the outer mount (The inner Hub Nut applies compresive force to the race, so the "dimples" are just to hold it in place while mounting). The outer bearing is held in place on the back side by a large compression key ring - remove this ring from the inside of the hub to remove the bearing. The inner bearing lands in the hub, and is held in place by the rear hub seal.

So far, no problems...put the hub/rotor assembly on the axel, torqued the inner hub nut, backed it off, installed the keeper ring and the outer (keeper) hub nut, and thought "Damn, I'm good". The axed shaft slipped into place next - I had to fiddle with this for a while - there is very little "slop" in the drive axel to hub machine slots and it took a bit of tongue biting to find a place that it "slipped right in". Noticed it was starting to get dark, so I put the hub end cap on temporarily to keep the dust and dew out of my freshly packed bearings.

I once again got below the belly of the beast and started to remove brake lines.......did I mention it was getting late? Or, maybe I'm getting so old I just can't see anymore.

Report on Screwup #2

From what little I could see (or feel) it appeared as if the brake line was securely clamped to the caliper landing assembly by what I assumed was a stud, so I started to back the (relatively large) nut off to remove the brake line.....BIG mistake.

After I got the brake line into some light (and cleaned and defogged my glasses so I could see) I saw there was a push clip that actually held the hose assembly onto the bracket.....no problemo, thought I, I'll just remove the clip and reinstall the bracket.......wrong.

What I thought was a stud is actually a bolt -- with the head of said bolt safely tucked well up behind and hidden by the hub/rotor assembly which I had recently reassembled and torqued down.

I figured that right there was a good quitting point for the night.

Like drops of oil from the gaskets you can't quite properly torque.....so pass the days of our lives.

To Be Continued.....
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:42 AM   #20
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Dennis,
I hate it when stuff like that happens. If it makes you feel better I had to install and un-install the brakes on my VW three times before I got things "right". It's always something when you're trying a big repair for the first time.

One question: do you think your dragging brakes contributed to your mileage issues earlier in the year?
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Old 09-10-2004, 08:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swebster
......One question: do you think your dragging brakes contributed to your mileage issues earlier in the year?
Good question - I really don't think so. One of the reasons I say that is because I am so anal about keeping records. With the records I hope to identify an anomaly as soon as possible….if I detect a small problem hopefully I can fix it before it becomes a big problem.

Partially attributable to this personality trait (anality), I have gotten into the habit of doing a walk around on all of the vehicles whenever I do a fuel stop……look for dings, check the tires for wear, look for a low tire….and so on.

The additional things I do after looking at each tire is I put my hand on the tire – check for high temp, then I put my hand on the middle of the rim and then on the hub – at least I can tell the difference between 120° (OK), and 150° (too hot). The tire temp lets me know if the tire pressure is OK, the middle of the rim checks for a dragging brake, and the hub lets me know if a bearing failure is imminent.

I am so anal about doing this (especially on the MoHo) that I purchased an “infra red remote thermometer” (with laser aiming assist ) which lives behind the driver’s seat. I grab it on my way out of the door when stopping for fuel.

So…to answer your question about the one really low fuel mileage I encountered, I think (hope) I would have picked up a high temp. Besides, this brake would have had to have been dragging for a long while since then (had it been a continuous problem I KNOW I would have noticed it (a high temp) somewhere along the line).

On the trip to Missouri in May I “did” about 20 miles of typical Missouri gravel roads – I could have picked up a piece of gravel in the pad and shattered it.

Lots of possibilities as to the cause – too bad I can’t be “for sure” on one and lay that problem to rest.

The good thing is, because my friends brought the “metal to metal” sound to my attention, I am fixing a relatively small problem before it grew into a huge problem.

This whole thing reaffirms my “maintenance” philosophy – do regular inspections, be “aware” of the vehicle, and don’t ignore ANY indication of an abnormality.
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Old 09-10-2004, 08:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
I purchased an “infra red remote thermometer” (with laser aiming assist )
I think that must be an option available only on "Texas" models. Do you have a "rack" for it on the MoHo?

I am reminded of a time about 12 years go when my wife and I broke down in Badlands National Park in our 79 Mercedes 280SE. We flagged down a park ranger who called in for a flatbed. The driver picked us up and towed us to "town" (Interior SD). The whole way down the road he kept fiddling with things in the truck..hitting the brakes, look at gauges, etc.

When we pulled into his garage the drive wheels were billowing smoke. He had left the emergency brake on the whole way down. I'm sure a little longer would have resulted in a fire. So here was a guy who drove a tow truck, was a mechanic and owned the garage who didn't make the connection. Needless to say he was one very upset guy as the parts man only came on Tuesdays and it was Weds.

At least you found the problem and can fix it in your driveway rather than on a trip or in the mountains. Yikes!

Please keep up the pics. My MoHo seems to follow yours for repairs within a few months and the pics are a great reference.
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Old 09-10-2004, 09:53 AM   #23
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Dennis- and I thought I was obsessive! Glad to hear that many of you are worse!
I also thank you for the posts. I don't yet need brakes, but its just a matter of time I'm sure, and you can bet I will be greasy for a few days as well.

Meanwhile I was thinking I would have the brake fluid extracted at a local brake shop and replaced, while I am doing my fall maintenance...hoses, oil change,new coolant,etc.

Also I am so thankful that over the past year + and many trips, I have had no breakdowns. Other than the tiniest pinhole hose leak, all has been well for quite a few thousand miles. It just shows how the maintenance and the advice I gleaned here has made my experience that much more enjoyable.
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:18 PM   #24
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Brake Progress

Thought I'd post a few pics of the (very slow) progress.

The first is a shot of the new hoses and the old ones. The new ones were made by a local Hot Rod/Hydraulic shop local to West Houston. The price per hose for the custom made was about that of the usual suppliers (NAPA, Pep Boys, O'Reily's, Auto Zone) so I went with the custom, eliminating the possibility of an "almost right" hose being shipped. Cost of the hoses were $190, bringing the "parts" total for the brake job to $620.

I learned that there are a BUNCH of possible hose end terminations. The Hydraulic shop had to cut off and reuse 4 of the end terminations - the weld job is such that you can't tell the new from the old.

The second shot is that of the old hose on the Driver Front Control Arms.

Third shot is a Macro of one of the front pads - all of the front pads look brand new. Interesting observance here - the driver side rear pad (outside pad) is ALMOST ready to self destruct. (Remember, it was the curb side (outside pad) failure that caused the curb side rotor to be replaced.) Both of the rear inside pads were at about 50 % left......and the brake wear indicators are on the INSIDE pads - neither of the wear indicators were about to "squeal", yet both of the outside pads were either failed or about to! -- Again, front pads look new.

Fourth pic is the windage shield on the driver's side of the engine - that will have to come off to access the master cylinder.

Pic #5 shows one of the ways the Texas MoHO 'Streamers keep their Laser Thermo-Pistols handy.
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Old 09-14-2004, 07:33 AM   #25
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still the cleanest undercarriage area I have seen. Makes me want to steam mine and repaint it.
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Old 09-14-2004, 08:01 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH
.........

Pic #5 shows one of the ways the Texas MoHO 'Streamers keep their Laser Thermo-Pistols handy.
Too funny........
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:30 PM   #27
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Brake Progress - Safety Issues

Quote by Alansd: .....makes me want to steam mine and repaint it.

Only if you spend no time with family, have no semblance of a live (as in "get a") and REALLY enjoy at lot of time on your back in cramped quarters in 95 + degree weather.......but it does beat therapy.


Rear curb side hub and rotor pulled, caliper stud bolt retightened, and hub reinstalled and torqued. Installed rear brake lines (DOT approved Stainless wrapped teflon covered in clear plastic). Installed both rebuilt rear calipers with new brake pads. Front brake lines are also new. Front pads appear to have 80% + left - driver side rear outboard caliper (the one WITHOUT the squeal wear indicator) had less than 1/8" remaining.

Pulled the windage tray and removed the old master cylinder - memo to anyone trying this themselves - the (front) support that goes from the master cylinder to the frame HAS TO BE REMOVED for the master cylinder removal. Remove rearmost brake line connection first, then forward brake line, then cylinder/frame support bolts, THEN the master cylinder can be removed.

I purchased a good set of "Flare nut wrenches" prior to starting this job - would not want to try to do the brakelines without them.

The older and fatter I get, the more I am concerned about safety.
Pics below are the jackstand setup for total tire removal.

Front shot is a pair of 6 ton rated jacks to the frame.

Rear shot is a pair of 6 ton jacks to the frame behind the tag axle.

Rear also shows a pair of 3 1/2 ton jacks under the drive axle.

Hydraulic levelers left down with some pressure on them.

The frame/monocoque structure flexes so much that if the rear levelers take out more than a couple of inches of suspension movement the door binds up to the point that it will not close - so I try to support the rear when I know it will be laid up for a long period of time.
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Old 09-18-2004, 05:17 PM   #28
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Slides and bolts

Dennis, one thing I would have replaced with the caliper hanging on one side only, and you may have, and I didn't see it listed, is the hold-down bolts and the metal slides for them that go in the calipers. If they are bad, or worn, rusted, whatever, they will cause the brakes to wear like you have described. Parts are cheap, and you may even be able to replace them without pulling the wheels back off, as the parts are on the inside edge where you can possibly access from under the MH.
Good luck finishing up.
Terry
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