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Old 03-11-2006, 10:23 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaplain Kent
[
Ch Kent: Is any of this making sense? Do we need to do more praying for a good samaritan and and less figuring??

R
This has to be my favorite suggestion so far, thanks. My son works for Miller Beer and is trying to get one of thier truck mechanics to come over and see what he can do.[/quote]
Ch Kent: Stay in bed. By the time you are up again, we will have figured this out, provided ourselves with hours of mental exercise, and made a (sort of) plan for sorting out these problems for all in the future. We're having all the fun, and all you got was the flu!!

Hope you are back on your feet soon,
R
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Old 03-11-2006, 10:41 AM   #58
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Chaplain, sorry you are under the weather. Hope you get to feeling better soon. I have a couple of suggetsions.

First, are we sure the battery is fully charged? The battery may be marginal or bad, or simply drained due to something associated with the dash changeout.

Second, I had a similar problem in a Mercury Capri in the 70's. If I jump into the way back machine and go back to the days of those poorly made '70's model American cars I remember having an intermittent starter problem similar to this. Sometimes it would start, sometimes no juice to the ignition. Turns out the problem was a skinned wire going to the starter that would occasionally ground out against the frame of the car and make it look like there was no power any place. Is it possible that you "nicked" a wire someplace that leads to a common power source for all the dead stuff?

I was having a litle bit of trouble following all the technical stuff above, but I worked on a friends car a couple years back that had a probelm with the running/head lights. We fiddled around with a bunch of stuff for a day or two then finally hit on "could it be a ground issue"? We grounded one the headlights directly to the frame and all was right the world. We simply made that new ground permanent and stopped trying to find the bad ground. As far as I know, it all still works.

Maybe that will help.

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Old 03-11-2006, 07:34 PM   #59
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Hope you are feeling better Chaplain, sorry to hear about the flu, get yourself right first, the motorhome will be solved later.
The above ossue sounds like my problem when I had a slightly burnt wire..not thru completely so sometimes I had no juice anywhere other times it was ok. I found the inside of the wire burnt near the manifold a small spot that was almost thru the wore but not quite.
Anyhow you have lots of concerned folk here....gey well!!
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:59 PM   #60
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My neighbor and his father who builds hot rods and rebuilds vintage Harley's came over and spent some quality time with Chummy's wiring. After quite a few hours they gave up. Today my son and I took apart every wiring bundle we could find looking for a bad, loose, burned, or odd wire. After hours of laying on the ground, crawling around the engine and trying to get behind the tires, we found nothing. Every wire looks good and sound, every connection secure, no burns, no scorches, nothing even a little suspicious. We found no fuse able links!
Here's where we are still. The battery is fully charged. There is power to the battery isolator. There is power to the alternator. There is no power to either side of the fuse block. There is no power to the ignition switch. There is no power to the glow plug switch, horn, head lights or anywhere past that fuse block.
No one that has come to look at this has yet to tell me how power is getting to the fuse block. Everyone says there should be a larger gauge red wire than which there is. I have followed every wire into and out of that fuse block and I can not tell you where it's power comes from.
I'm tired, sick and ready for bed. Maybe I'll make a flower planter out of Chummy.
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:04 PM   #61
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Oh Chaplin....

my heart bleeds for you. Please keep going, Chummy will be better eventually!

Any thought on getting a new isolator and trying that? I find it odd that power gets to it, then seems to stop from there. I can't figure out how disassembling the dash got into this mess, but, it seems from your posts that the isolator is the "router" of power to the fuseblock. I think your MH is too old for some sort of hidden theft immoblizer (activated when the ignition lock was disconnected), right?

I'd also suggest "jumping" the fuseblock - passing the isolator - but I'm not sure if the isolator steps down the current to the fuseblock.
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Old 03-12-2006, 10:14 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
I'd also suggest "jumping" the fuseblock - passing the isolator - but I'm not sure if the isolator steps down the current to the fuseblock.
I have thought of this as well. Can anyone else tell me which posts of the isolator are hot? I have only the far left post which is hot. The middle post circles back to a post under my alternator- could this be the source of power for my fuse block? There is no current at this post. It is my understanding that this post would be hot when the engine is running.
Can I by-pass the isolator and just try and see what will happen operating off of the cranking battery?
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Old 03-12-2006, 11:56 PM   #63
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Man this really sucks, I am really sorry you are going thru this. But, we all know that some day Chummy will run again.

There is no reason that you need to have the isolator in the circuit that connects the chassis battery to the igniton or the fuse block. All the isolator does is to connect the chassis battery and the house batteries WHEN THE ALTERNATOR IS PUTTING OUT CURRENT. You should be able to wire the chassis battery to the alternator, starter and all other circuits powered by the chassis battery without the isolator. If you did, the only functionality you would lose is the ability to charge the house batteries via the alternator.
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Old 03-13-2006, 05:39 AM   #64
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The most logical place to check is the missing positive voltage. However; I am wondering if you have verified the ground (negative) side of the battery is OK by checking with an ohm meter from the negative post to engine ground ?

After reading your post several times the places you have the positive voltage could be from the house battery. A missing negative from the starting battery would give you all the same symptoms you have outlined.

Garry
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:34 AM   #65
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There is no reason that you need to have the isolator in the circuit that connects the chassis battery to the igniton or the fuse block. All the isolator does is to connect the chassis battery and the house batteries WHEN THE ALTERNATOR IS PUTTING OUT CURRENT.

Guy, I thought the isolator also joined the batteries for starting purposes? Maybe it's just a delusion.... I'm often out of my mind... kinda like Lev.

Kent, I've been following the thread since last week. Hope you're getting back to normal this week. Sorry for your troubles.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:04 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenCoombe
There is no reason that you need to have the isolator in the circuit that connects the chassis battery to the igniton or the fuse block. All the isolator does is to connect the chassis battery and the house batteries WHEN THE ALTERNATOR IS PUTTING OUT CURRENT.

Guy, I thought the isolator also joined the batteries for starting purposes? Maybe it's just a delusion.... I'm often out of my mind... kinda like Lev.

Kent, I've been following the thread since last week. Hope you're getting back to normal this week. Sorry for your troubles.
Ch Kent:

Battery isolators are intended to isolate batteries in different "banks" so current can flow from the charging system (alternator) into each "bank", but not backwards to the alternator or from one "bank"to another. This protects a charged "bank" from discharging into a weak one. They work using diodes, which only allow current to flow one way. There will be a slight voltage drop.

In a previous post, I think you indicated that you had measurable voltage at only one post on the isolator. If so, this is a problem. Both outer posts ought to give you measurable voltage, one from your starting battery and one from the house batteries.

You can, as indicated elsewhere here, join all the wires on the isolator which bypasses it entirely, which might be useful for testing purposes.
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Old 03-13-2006, 01:11 PM   #67
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I hate it when this happens

You say “There is no power to either side of the fuse block. There is no power to the ignition switch. There is no power to the glow plug switch, horn, head lights or anywhere past that fuse block”.
No one that has come to look at this has yet to tell me how power is getting to the fuse block.

IMHO;The power does not come from any “one” wire at the fuse block. Some of the wires are hot with the key “on” others are hot all the time. “These” wires are to connect the positive side of the battery thru fuses and then to the components and back to the negative side of the battery via chassis ground.

Some of the wires are taking the voltage into the cab area and some are taking the voltage out to various components outside the cab area. The fuse block is only a junction area where (most) everything is protected from short circuits.
To make it all work you have to have a path starting from the “negative” battery post to the positive post with whatever components requires the power in between and these components will be protected by a fuse, CB or fuseable link.
Based on your statement of what doesn’t work a major wire from the negative or positive post of the battery just isn’t making a connection (open circuit).

John HD has outlined a good way to start with the basics of troubleshooting an open wire, you can also use an ohm meter.I think you will have to start with just one item (forget the key) pick something that should have power all the time like a headlight or parking light turn the light switch on and go from there. When you find the problem why the lights don’t work everything else will fall into place.

Garry

(had to edit to make it readable)
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Old 03-13-2006, 01:51 PM   #68
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Garry is 100% correct. Find the most simple circut and fix that. The lights are a good one.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:04 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenCoombe
....Guy, I thought the isolator also joined the batteries for starting purposes? Maybe it's just a delusion....
Glen:

The isolator only "joins" the two battery banks for charging purposes - it's a safety measure to insure that if you drain the coach batteries the chassis battery will not be pulled down at the same time.

On most 345's there is a switch in the glove compartment - on the top or "ceiling" of the compartment - by momentarily holding this switch "on" you engage a relay that "joins" the coach and chassis battery banks...thus allowing a "boost" for starting the engine.

I have not had to use this switch since I spent the bucks on a "good" starter for the 454.

I do not think this booster switch has anything to do with CK's problems...JohnHD gave some good advice - start at the battery and check and eliminate from the problematic path each wire and connection from there (both positive and negative) until you find the point of "no voltage" - it may take a while, but it is the only logical way of trouble shooting an open wiring circuit....the fact that CK has voltage to his voltage indicator should narrow down the search a bit - it does sound as if the problem is in the wiring from the battery/alternator co-joining to the fuse block, or in the fuse block itself....

After the problem is found maybe CK will kick back with a cool one and ponder Sherlock Holme's words .....

"Eliminatary (sic) my dear Chaplain."
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:26 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH
Glen:

The isolator only "joins" the two battery banks for charging purposes - it's a safety measure to insure that if you drain the coach batteries the chassis battery will not be pulled down at the same time.

On most 345's there is a switch in the glove compartment - on the top or "ceiling" of the compartment - by momentarily holding this switch "on" you engage a relay that "joins" the coach and chassis battery banks...thus allowing a "boost" for starting the engine.

I have not had to use this switch since I spent the bucks on a "good" starter for the 454.

I do not think this booster switch has anything to do with CK's problems...JohnHD gave some good advice - start at the battery and check and eliminate from the problematic path each wire and connection from there (both positive and negative) until you find the point of "no voltage" - it may take a while, but it is the only logical way of trouble shooting an open wiring circuit....the fact that CK has voltage to his voltage indicator should narrow down the search a bit - it does sound as if the problem is in the wiring from the battery/alternator co-joining to the fuse block, or in the fuse block itself....

After the problem is found maybe CK will kick back with a cool one and ponder Sherlock Holme's words .....

"Eliminatary (sic) my dear Chaplain."
With regard to the paddle switch in the glove box which joins battery banks in the 345. Ditto the 350, (and perhaps the 360 and 370??). The relay is on the back side of the battery box, facing the frame--it slides in and out with the box. If clean and with fully charged batteries, I can hear my relay kick in from the driver's seat. Recently one of the bolts holding a wire on mine worked a bit loose--which is how I found it.
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