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Old 01-21-2004, 10:16 PM   #1
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Serpentine Belt Question -'92 454 - HELP

In my never-ending quest to install a Whipple supercharger on my '92 300LE, I have hit the following wall and need help. Whipple, despite having manufactured kits for P30 RVs for a while, quit doing so because of inconsistency from manufacturer to manufacturer in the treatment of the belts and pulleys. They want me to convert my belt system to the "new style single serpentine belt like the trucks have." I have a serpentine belt from crank to waterpump to alternator and then V belts from crank to A/C and also double V belts to hydroboost. Does any pre - Vortec TBI truck really have only one belt for everything? I thought the whole point of the double belts to the hydroboost was avoid loss of brakes and steering simultaneously if a belt failed. Any help from owners of '92 - '95 454 TBI GMC hydroboost trucks or motorhomes greatly appreciated. What I need to do is identify a 2500 or 3500 that has the exact belt routing I have on the Airstream and order that kit. Many thanks.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:19 AM   #2
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serpentine belt

I'm under the impression that the whole serpentine belt system for the 350 / 454 is the same, the only difference may be the side location of the AC unit. I'm converting my Astro to a V8 (TBI), and the accessory head bolt pattern on the 4.3 is the same as the 5.7L engine. Summit racing sells the serpentine system for "all 88+ Chevy v8's," a kit form from GM performance (including alternator). However, it'd be much cheaper to go to a junkyard and pull the pieces you need from a wrecked 88-93-94 TBI truck. You want the later alloy serpentine belt accessory braces (the earlier ones 88-89) may only be stamped steel, and much weaker than the alloy units.

Also, March performance products makes supremo (and mucho bucks) alloy pieces to convert to the serpentine belt. They actually may be a good option with the whipple.

Good luck! Sounds like fun!
Marc
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:23 AM   #3
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Re-read

Hmmm, the P30 chassis may be different. The Hydroboost in the truck chassis comes off the powersteering pump (they do both). My belt goes crank, steering/boost, AC, and alt, with a idler pully in there as well.
March may be your option.
Marc
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Old 01-22-2004, 08:17 AM   #4
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89 was the first year for the surpentine belts in the suburbans.. That set up was identical as far as I know through 91 on the 1 ton crews and the burbs.

350 parts will not bolt on correctly to a bigh block.

hit http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/ www.ck5.com pirate4x4.com and check the forsale forums. This is not an uncommon swap and the parts show up from time to time on those boards. I seem to recall a set up osted recently on CK5. there was a couple 89-91 burbs listed that were being parted.
The Crew usually have Hydroboost and I cdon't know if that made any difference in the mounting bracket. You might also have ot schange the waper pump if your running V-belts. Serpentine runs a reverse rotation pump. Power steering I thing all your looking at is the pully. The same Brackets worked with or without AIR pump I think.

Also you might want to hit your local dealer. These parts are still avalable NEW for GM. The dealer parts guy should be able to print of a diagram and get a full list of the brackets. Double sheck the prices you are quoted through www.GMpartsdirect.com Some dealers will stick it to you.
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Old 01-22-2004, 08:36 AM   #5
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Part numbers for 454 belts

Anyone have the part numbers for 454 belts?
Mine is a 1990 model.

I have a belt squeeling and it I cannot get rid of the noise.

Any thoughts on what causes belts to squeel even though tension seems to be okay?

Smily
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Old 01-22-2004, 08:54 AM   #6
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Ken,

If your belt system is like mine then you have a couple of things to look at.

The AC belt may be also driving the hydro boost/power steering pump along with a dedicated belt for the power steering pump. It seems to me that the AC belt is normally the one that squeals. even though the AC is not on. It is the longest belt so has the greatest amount of stretchability. You need both belts! The reasoning is for safety and the power needs for the pump. One belt will not transfer enough to the pump and the steering will be weird and the brakes will be weak at best (don't ask me how I know )

IF you are unable to get rid of the squeal it may be time for belts. The power steering dedicated one is the hard one. It is also the first one to go on in most cases. I suggest that you get an early start if you do the swap as it will take a few hours.
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Old 01-22-2004, 08:57 AM   #7
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Great answer

How about P/Ns?
I know you have them in your files Brett
Smily
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Old 01-22-2004, 09:02 AM   #8
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Ken,

I will check in my books. The coach came with new belts, so I don't know if I have the numbers or not. I will have to see if the guys who did the engine swap installed new ones or reused the existing. I would not call them old as they were less than 90 days old when I got the coach.
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Old 01-22-2004, 09:08 AM   #9
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Re: Part numbers for 454 belts

Quote:
Originally posted by smily
Anyone have the part numbers for 454 belts?
Mine is a 1990 model.

I have a belt squeeling and it I cannot get rid of the noise.

Any thoughts on what causes belts to squeel even though tension seems to be okay?

Smily
I seem to be in a constant battle with mine for this. The flat belt for the alternator just started squealing on cold start up with electrical load. It's funny If I flip the head lights righ on it squeels but if I wait a minute or tow it doesn't. Tension is right and alternaotr was rebuilt just a few months ago and it only does it when its mid 30's or lower. New belt.

Look at the powersteering pump if it still has the V belts. Because the A/C runs a single belt and is 134 conversion (higher head pressure) I have to run that belt tight. Well it sits deeper in the groodve of the power steering pump then the second belt that doesn't go around the A/C. So it travels a different distance. Instant squeek.

Lunch I can look at the Burb and get the belt numbers but I don't know if it's the same set up as the P30. I can get a blurry camera phone picture as well if you like LOL.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:00 PM   #10
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Belt Tensioner

IF you have a serpentine belt, with an automatic tensioner, it is very possible you have a weak tensioner. I am replacing one now that has a weak tensioner, it also put a "glaze" on the serp. belt, and now the new belt has to be replaced also, or it will continue squealing.
Terry
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:24 PM   #11
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Re: Great answer

Quote:
Originally posted by smily
How about P/Ns?
I know you have them in your files Brett
Smily
Ok here is the P/N for a N code 454 with air pump. N code motors came both FI and and not but I think they all had the same belts except some didn't have the Air pump. Single Micro V flat belt and 2 v-belts.

Alternator air pump is 060560 Gates Part number.

Power steering (closest to block) 15410 Dayco
The A/C Power steering is a 15605 dayco.

I think Dayco codes like this . A 15 is the width I think in MM. the 410 would be length in inches so 41 inches for the first and 60.5 inches for the second.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:33 PM   #12
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Re: Re: Great answer

Quote:
Originally posted by 59toaster


Ok here is the P/N for a N code 454 with air pump. N code motors came both FI and and not but I think they all had the same belts except some didn't have the Air pump. Single Micro V flat belt and 2 v-belts.

Alternator air pump is 060560 Gates Part number.

Power steering (closest to block) 15410 Dayco
The A/C Power steering is a 15605 dayco.

I think Dayco codes like this . A 15 is the width I think in MM. the 410 would be length in inches so 41 inches for the first and 60.5 inches for the second.
Close, the 15 is 15/32".
The serp belt is: 06: -- 6 ribs on the inside of the belt
0560:--- 56.0 inches long

The above is useful if you need to get a belt a little longer or shorter for some reason.
Also, the V belts can be gotten wider in case they sit too far down in the pulleys, in your example of a 15410, to get one wider, you would order a 17420, one size wider, and one inch longer to make up for it sitting farther out in the pulleys. Sometimes a V belt will squeal because it is riding on the inner edge of the pulley (bottomed out), instead of the sides where it should.
Terry
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Old 01-22-2004, 05:59 PM   #13
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All the above squealing belt discussion is great, but I'm still trying to identify what year GM truck came with the same dual belt set up and hydroboost as my '92 P30. If someone said 89 was the first year for a single serpentine belt, does this mean an 88 is the same as my P30? I have an 88 454 Suburban, but it doesn't have hydroboost. Do the 3500s or duallys use hydroboost? If they do, then I'm looking for a kit for an 88 dually. Please help. My belts don't squeal.
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Old 01-22-2004, 06:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by fangthorpe
All the above squealing belt discussion is great, but I'm still trying to identify what year GM truck came with the same dual belt set up and hydroboost as my '92 P30. If someone said 89 was the first year for a single serpentine belt, does this mean an 88 is the same as my P30? I have an 88 454 Suburban, but it doesn't have hydroboost. Do the 3500s or duallys use hydroboost? If they do, then I'm looking for a kit for an 88 dually. Please help. My belts don't squeal.
Oh. Yeah. We did kind of stray from the question, didn't we?
I will look in my book tomorrow, and see what year is listed as the first year w/serp. belt, w/hydroboost, and post it on this message.
Terry
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