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Old 04-21-2003, 08:37 AM   #1
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Running Rich ?

I brought home '83 310 last Friday, about 50 mile trip. The Piedmont section of Ga. and S.C. have some stiff hills, not very long but fairly steep. Engine ran smooth on level but going up hills I noticed black smoke coming from tail pipe, not bad just looked liked really rich mixture. This normal ? Its been a long time since I worked on a carburator and quotes from local shop run $1,500 for new Holley to $ 450 for generic. Engine rebuilt 12,000 mi.ago. I did notice on repair bill a new carb base gasket and carb fuel filter so am guessing it is original carb. Two or three pumps on the accelerator and it cranks up and runs really well. Won't even think about mileage, I just enjoy....Any help muchly appreciated. Thanks .......Bill
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Old 04-21-2003, 09:24 AM   #2
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carb might need adjusting but it if it is the california carb probably doesnt have any adjustment screws. i would change the filter on the frame rail, it is on the passanger side , you will have to look for it as they are mounted in various places dont seem to be a specific spot they put them. just look at the fuel line . if that doesnt help and you convince yourself that a carb change out is needed auto zone has a carb for $256 . just replaced mine. i used the non polution model. lol
al
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Old 04-21-2003, 09:25 AM   #3
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Mine runs quite rich also which is a common thing with these. I cleaned the carburetor really well and it helped. I also cleaned or changed all the filters, and the pcv valve just to be safe.
I find I have to clean the carb every few thousanbd miles, but its a few minutes with a spray can, so that is no problem.
I know of at least two other owners who went to the edelbrock carb and it solved all their problems like dieseling, and run on, at a cost of 200- 300 for the carb plus install.
Definitely on my list to do at some point, but for now all is well.

Bu the way the Jacobs RV electronic ignition system, and the Tornado air manger are good additions, as reported here.
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Old 04-21-2003, 12:47 PM   #4
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If it's a GM engine it would have a Quadrajet. I would recomend that you stay with it and if the carb on the vehicle is orriginal try to retain it if at all possible. Rebuilt carbs are often slapped together with miss matched parts and the wrong jets. If that one is orriginal it should be jetted correctly. If you have a problem with it you can rebuilt them for around $14 for parts. SOmetimes the shafts will get some excessive slop that causes a vacuum leak but a good automotive machine shop can istall bushings in the base plate and correct this problem.

If the carb is ever beyond economical repair you can buy new Quadrajets. Holly is not a bolt on and they are a cranky carb that will give you fits compaired to a Quad. You can buy new Quads from www.jegs.com or www.summitracing.com for about $400 and that's NEW not a rebuild. Rebuilds for around $250 at most chain parts stores often have as many problems as what your replacing. I have had to go through 2-3 carbs every time I have dealt with a chain store rebuild.

Last go around I had a carb with in internal crack. I ended up getting 2 replacements that had problems (I was still holding on to my original till I proved the replacement was going to run). So Carb number three I ended up buying a rebuild kit and swapping parts off my old carb to make it perform correctly. That was carbs from Pepboys that were rebuild by Holly (see my hate of holly? LOl ). After all the Hassle I wish I would have just ordered new one from Jegs and saved myself a LOT of hassle.

Under full load that is not uncommon for you to get black smoke and my Fuel injected vehicles even do this under full throttle. A little could probably be adjusted out of it but proably not worth the effort as long as your not having problems with fuel fouling the spark plugs. I would be more concerned about not seeing black smoke and getting spark knock. That can blow holes thought the pistons and burn valves because the engine is leaning out.
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Old 04-21-2003, 06:04 PM   #5
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running rich

smell your oil and check your plugs.
Running a little rich may be ok, but you could be dumping raw gas down the cylinders.
Edelbrocks EDL-1906 is a perfect bolt-on replacement Q-jet. The only change I did is from hot air choke to electric.
The mixture screws are hard to reach and the engine heat tends to burn your hand.
You need a special tool or make one (I use a section of a radio antenna) for the adjustment.
Keep your eyes peeled on the rpm and turn the adjustment screw clockwise until you notice a drop in rpm. Back out until you get max rpm, then clockwise again just tiny bit.
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Old 04-21-2003, 09:22 PM   #6
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My old 1978 MH blew the "black smoke". I installed the Jacobs RV electronic ignition system ,set the timing. It seem to help a bunch .The old '78 would pull any hill!.I wasn't a looker but a puller. The '95 LY was a much needed upgrade.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:11 PM   #7
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Re: running rich

Quote:
Originally posted by PeterH-79MH
smell your oil and check your plugs.
Running a little rich may be ok, but you could be dumping raw gas down the cylinders.
Edelbrocks EDL-1906 is a perfect bolt-on replacement Q-jet. The only change I did is from hot air choke to electric.
The mixture screws are hard to reach and the engine heat tends to burn your hand.
You need a special tool or make one (I use a section of a radio antenna) for the adjustment.
Keep your eyes peeled on the rpm and turn the adjustment screw clockwise until you notice a drop in rpm. Back out until you get max rpm, then clockwise again just tiny bit.
I splurged and bought the tool $10 at Auto zone.
That is setting the base idle mixture and a good way to do it. The premis is the rpms will peak the closer you get to perfect mix.
I do a simular trick with a Vac gage. The more vac it pulls the better the mix.

Still may not cure the foot to the floor mix. That would need to change the secondary metering rods out to the next size or two up and some adjustments on the upper doors spring tenssion.

The great thing about these carbs is they are pretty well self tuning once you get your main jets right. The secondaries only alow in as much air as the engine can pull so you get a smooth transsison as the motor needs more fuel. Unfortuanly the term Quadra Bog comes from people who go messing with them without learning about them first. The tricks that work on a Hogly will cause you problems if you try them with a Quad.

I have converted both my Quads for hot air choke to Electric. One of the best things I ever did. Both trucks fire off better then my FI Burb and my FI toyota.

There is a couple good books out on how to performance tune these carbs. One is available at most auto parts stores. Its a Haynes book titled Rochester Tunning and performance ( I think I got that right). There is also another book by Doug Roe (sp) I think is the author. I think Peter would enjoy both. Both detail some tricks in how to read spark plugs to figure out how the mixture settings are doing.

I look foward to meeting you one day Peter. Good to find another gear head here LOL.
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Old 04-22-2003, 06:53 AM   #8
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OT Gear heads

I have the great benefit of living next door to Mercurycharlie, who builds Hot Rods. He put this one together in 30 days for the Austin Custom and Hot Rod show. He started with a frame! Seeing something like that keeps you humble.
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Old 04-22-2003, 01:29 PM   #9
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Re: OT Gear heads

Quote:
Originally posted by PeterH-79MH
I have the great benefit of living next door to Mercurycharlie, who builds Hot Rods. He put this one together in 30 days for the Austin Custom and Hot Rod show. He started with a frame! Seeing something like that keeps you humble.
Sweet!
Have to love neighbors like that.

My bud has done a couple ground up's. He's looking for a 3 window right now. He has a 67 Impala that his Dad bought new with a 327 Towanda poping out 410hp nice Dago Rake to it. 78 Chevy Luv with a 350 Shoe horned into it, made into a Convertable that takes a place in almost every show in it's class. Frame off on that one, Hand fabricated roll pan with frenched plate and power antenna, shaved,5/6 drop. Did a olds school approch on it with Mr. Gasket bug catcher and Script valve covers. The bottom of the front of the scoop is a level with the hood and the rear sinks down into the hood with only about 1/2 above. Looks like rocket but motor is fairly mild for drivability. It will happily cruise 70 all day long and get 19mpg doing it. He hauls it to the Turkey Rod run in Daytona every year on a trailer behind the 67.

I'm want to build a Street machine out of a 71-72 2wd Blazer. They look so good with the top off and a 6/6 drop and a set of fat tires to fill the wheel wells. Just missed one that was built already. I have a 74 body and frame that's mine If I just go get it but no time for a big project like that. I also have a 70 Pontiac LeMans Sport Convertable (Same body that a GTO is) numbers matching almost rust free sitting in the garage that I haven't had time to work on.

Seriously cincidering getting it up and going and pulling the 59 with it to close events. Set my Numbers matching motor to the side and put a Ram Air 400 in it. It's stick so it would have plenty of power to handle the 3k Caravanner. Have to figure out how to get a hitch on it without butchering it up. That would be fun for a Fall Florida VAC or Tin Can get together.

Ohh well I'll quit high jacking the post.
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:11 AM   #10
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Gulp

First 100 miles got 4.5 mpg. Adds new meaning to "running rich".
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Old 10-07-2003, 10:52 AM   #11
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Electric Choke

Motorhead Alert!

I resurrected this thread to ask a question to facilitate an upcoming modification.

Electric Chokes on a Carbureted 454.

First, let me state that I am not worried about smogging or cert tests, just want to be able to start the engine and run at top efficiency. What is the best method of choking the engine?

I think I would prefer a manual choke or an electric model over a heat riser controlled choke.

On the electric unit, does the solenoid;

1) Hold the choke closed only while the starter is engaged?
2) Close the choke and rely on a “throttle cam release” to return the choke to the open position with a spring?
3) Rely on an electrically heated spring to open the choke slowly in reaction to the spring being heated?

Does anyone have a preferred method of choke control?

It’s not like the unit will be a daily driver of someone’s mother, so simplicity of use will not necessarily be a factor. I need something I can depend on, and be able to use to my best advantage. (i.e. If I think I have a flooded engine I need to be assured I can open it to clear the flood while cranking.)

I am currently enjoying economy of 4 to 5 mpg, and have had about all of that I can stand. I suspect the carb will be changed out in the relatively near future, and with the Control Panel makeover looming large, I need to consider the most probable approach to the choke question.

Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Old 10-07-2003, 11:16 AM   #12
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#3

The electric choke is a bi-metal type of coil that is heated by the 12 Volt current. It closes when the metal is cold and power is applied. As the metal heats it relaxes and allows the choke to open. There is some linkage too that holds the choke on until you blip the throttle.

All you need is a 12 volt source that is switched by the ignition.
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Old 10-07-2003, 11:30 AM   #13
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electr versus heat riser choke

One of the advantages of the electric choke is the ability to completely open the choke by simply turning on the ignition for a few minutes before cranking the engine. This comes in handy when starting the engine in extreme high altitudes and like Dennis said, with a flooded engine.
A disadvantage would be when its wired randomly to some unmonitored 12V circuit. Black smoke and very poor gas mileage would be the only indicator for a blown choke circuit.
I wired my choke to my illuminated rear electric fuel pump switch.
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Old 10-07-2003, 12:43 PM   #14
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Re: electr versus heat riser choke

Quote:
Originally posted by PeterH-79MH
One of the advantages of the electric choke is the ability to completely open the choke by simply turning on the ignition for a few minutes before cranking the engine. This comes in handy when starting the engine in extreme high altitudes and like Dennis said, with a flooded engine.
A disadvantage would be when its wired randomly to some unmonitored 12V circuit. Black smoke and very poor gas mileage would be the only indicator for a blown choke circuit.
I wired my choke to my illuminated rear electric fuel pump switch.
That's not how GM likes those chokes wired. GM installs a oil presure switch inline to the choke power. That way the choke only gets power if the engine is running. That prevents tunring the key to run and then either running the battery dead by the choke heating or causeing a cold weather start problem.

If you know it's not through the switch then no big deal but the oil pressure switch makes it idiot proof for the average person with limited mechanical knowledge and keeps them out of trouble.

I have converted 3 GM's to electric choke and it's been the best mod I have made by far. Much eaiser to adjust and seem to drop the choke faster. I also ran into some problems with the hot air chokes that they would start cooling down and the choke would come back on long after the vehicle reached full operating temp. .

The one thing I have found is the electric Choke elements sold at the chain stores are JUNK! Thay last about 12 months tops. A real A/C Delco element will go 4-5 years.
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