Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-09-2013, 01:45 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Removing a 454 starter with Banks headers....

....I'm finding out is a real pain in the backside. The starter has a heat shield on it and as near as I can tell there is no way to remove the heat shield without removing the starter first. But you can't remove the starter because the Banks header is in the way

The last thing I want to do is remove the header just so I can get at the starter. All of this effort just to check the fusible links that feed power from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch. I don't have any voltage at the ignition switch and looking at the wiring diagrams that I have it seems that the ignition switch get's its power from the starter solenoid through a fusible link.

If you ask me that's a really stupid arrangement. Why not use a fuse someplace that is easily accessible?

Any suggestions on how to get the starter out without pulling the header?

Brad
__________________

__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #2
cwf
Rivet Master
 
cwf's Avatar
 
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,931
Images: 2
Cut the section of pipe in your way.

Remove starter

Reinstall pipe section using collars.... Handy for "next time" when u are on vacation and it quits. Remember Wally's words, "no changes, only improvements."

Relocate fusible link.
__________________

__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
cwf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 03:25 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,371
Brad I cant say for sure about your Argosy but on my 28' the fusible links are in a wire bundle that is to the left of the engine hatch under the drivers seat. It appears the Airstream wiring and the GM wiring join in that wire bundle. The dash power source starts at the battery terminal on the starter goes through a fusible link under the drivers seat and up to the amp gauge. From the amp gauge it goes to the ignition switch and head light switch. You should be able to check out the system and replace the fusible link without removing the starter unless the heat shield covers the battery terminal.

BTW I have never found a decent diagram of the joining of the Airstream and GM wiring systems.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 03:45 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwf View Post
Cut the section of pipe in your way.

Remove starter

Reinstall pipe section using collars.... Handy for "next time" when u are on vacation and it quits. Remember Wally's words, "no changes, only improvements."

Relocate fusible link.
Hmm, cutting a pipe section, interesting idea but I think I'm going to have to pass
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 03:58 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartstream View Post
Brad I cant say for sure about your Argosy but on my 28' the fusible links are in a wire bundle that is to the left of the engine hatch under the drivers seat. It appears the Airstream wiring and the GM wiring join in that wire bundle. The dash power source starts at the battery terminal on the starter goes through a fusible link under the drivers seat and up to the amp gauge. From the amp gauge it goes to the ignition switch and head light switch. You should be able to check out the system and replace the fusible link without removing the starter unless the heat shield covers the battery terminal.

BTW I have never found a decent diagram of the joining of the Airstream and GM wiring systems.
Dan,

Things just got a little weirder. Using a mirror I looked real close at the wiring at the starter and everything looks just fine. If a fusible link was bad I would expect to see some sort of exterior damage.

I bolted the starter back in place and decided to look elsewhere for my problem. I went back to the ignition switch and pulled the connector from the back of the switch and took voltage readings there. I got some really erratic readings but at times was reading 12.45 volts at the battery connector. That told me I was getting power from the starter solenoid up to the switch. Yet when I turn the ignition key nothing, nada, zilch happens.

On a hunch I decided to toggle the solenoid that ties the coach batteries into the chassis system and whadayaknow, it starts right up

I turned it off, tried to start normally and nothing. Toggled the solenoid and it starts right up. I repeated this three or four times, mainly because I was stumped as to why that would work. The engine stays running until I turn it off but unless the coach batteries are tied in it won't start.

The starting battery shows 12.6 volts and is only a few years old if I remember right. I can only assume I have a bad connection on either the battery + or - terminals or where the cables tie into the chassis. Considering how many times likely I've had the ground terminal off the battery I'm betting I have an issue somewhere in the + side of the system.

At least I don't have to remove that d*mn Banks header to remove the starter
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
vswingfield's Avatar
 
1983 34' Excella
1967 24' Tradewind
Little Rock , Arkansas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,773
Images: 32
Yea! You don't have to pull the starter!

If you ever do, you might consider a pretty well known Chevy starter mod. Switching to a remote solenoid. The starter solenoid has been known to suffer from the heat (hence the heat shield).

By using a Ford type solenoid, everything is away from the heat and easy to reach.

See:

Adding a Remote Starter Solenoid to your Chevy, My Way

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750

(Don't think I'd cut the header pipe either.)
__________________
Vaughan
vswingfield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2013, 05:41 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Problem solved. After it was all said and done, the positive battery terminal was not tight

Several months ago I was working on the steps and disconnected the positive cable at the battery. Apparently when I was completing that job I forgot to tighten the clamp nut on the cable. It was just tight enough to start the engine a few times before to much resistance built up in the joint.

This whole not starting issue started last Friday when I was swapping belts around on the A/C compressor and water pump (long story!). Anyway on Friday I disconnected the negative cable at the battery and did the work on the belts. I then reconnected the negative cable and started the engine. Had a squeal so I immediately turned it off to look things over. After that the engine wouldn't start again.

My first thought was the ignition switch went bad because the key switch felt like it was turning to far. Also before I ordered the switch I checked and there was voltage at the battery terminal. So I bought a replacement ignition switch and today I installed it hoping that would fix the problem. Didn't make a difference so I checked for voltage at the ignition switch again and this time there wasn't any which led me to trying to look at the starter solenoid and the fusible links. After looking closely at the fusible links I determined they were probably OK and re-installed the starter. It's so tight up in there I dropped the starter onto the header so I could wiggle it around to look at the wiring. There is no way that starter is coming out without removing the header though.

I then went back inside and that's when I decided to try the solenoid trick. You might say I went through a whole lot of work just to tighten the positive battery clamp bolt

Vaughn, the motorhome already has the remote relay conversion. It was done at the factory. Sometime after 1974 Chevy apparently started mounting a remote relay on a bracket that bolts to the top alternator mount.

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 10:50 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
3 Dog Nite's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Cleveland , Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
Brad, your efforts are not in vain. By sharing you have taught us how to start a moho by toggling the solenoids. This could get us back on the road & home in a pinch.
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain

AIR 22749 WBCCI 2349 NOVA TAC TN-6
1989 345 LE Classic Motorhome
3 Dog Nite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
wxbuoy's Avatar
 
1991 35' Airstream 350
Carriere , Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,205
Send a message via Skype™ to wxbuoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Dog Nite View Post
Brad, your efforts are not in vain. By sharing you have taught us how to start a moho by toggling the solenoids. This could get us back on the road & home in a pinch.
Agreed!!
__________________
Dave and Felicia
wxbuoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 11:21 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Dog Nite View Post
Brad, your efforts are not in vain. By sharing you have taught us how to start a moho by toggling the solenoids. This could get us back on the road & home in a pinch.
Ricky,

After it was all said and done I sat down and tried to see if there was a point that should have pointed me to the positive battery cable and I couldn't find one. When I had done the step repair months ago I neglected to tighten the positive battery terminal. Yet the motorhome had been started many times since then with no issues. It always fired right off and cranked smoothly.

So when I started trouble shooting I tried to follow the chain of missing voltage back to it's source which led to the starter solenoid. Needless to say next time I'll definitely check the battery connections before suspecting the starter

Thanks for the support!

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2013, 07:48 PM   #11
cwf
Rivet Master
 
cwf's Avatar
 
1999 34' Excella
Currently Looking...
Hillsboro , Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,931
Images: 2
It is the simple stuff that makes you wanna have a bonfire.
__________________
Peace and Blessings..
Channing
WBCCI# 30676
cwf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 11:38 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwf View Post
It is the simple stuff that makes you wanna have a bonfire.
Unfortunately the time for a bonfire is long past. I should have had one before I started this project. Just think of how much money I would have saved!
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 05:54 PM   #13
BAB
Rivet Master
 
BAB's Avatar

 
2015 30' Classic
2012 28' International
Greensboro , North Carolina
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,574
This is a lesson I have trouble learning. My Dad tried to pass it to me when I was about 17 years old and we were rebuilding a boat engine (the whole enchilada -- reboring, new rings/pistons, valves, etc.). He said, "son, when you have an engine problem, almost always it's going to be something really, really simple." So, I've also looked for a complex solution when I (join the club) forgot to tighten a battery clamp. Or when I rebuilt a carburetor and had a spring leftover. Sound familiar?
__________________
_________________
"SilverLeaf II" 2015 30' Classic
2014 RAM 2500 Laramie 4x4 CC w/6.7L Cummins
ProPride 3P
AIR# 58452
WBCCI # 3430-Unit 21
BAB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2013, 07:58 PM   #14
Silver Bullet
 
choctawmel's Avatar

 
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
choctaw , Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 668
Images: 1
Well, I feel a little (no much) better about my 10 months to rebuild Silver Bullet's horse-ie stale. But I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night either. Partners in the lost mind.
__________________

__________________
choctawmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.