Removing a 454 starter with Banks headers....

[bkahler]

....I'm finding out is a real pain in the backside. The starter has a heat shield on it and as near as I can tell there is no way to remove the heat shield without removing the starter first. But you can't remove the starter because the Banks header is in the way

The last thing I want to do is remove the header just so I can get at the starter. All of this effort just to check the fusible links that feed power from the starter solenoid to the ignition switch. I don't have any voltage at the ignition switch and looking at the wiring diagrams that I have it seems that the ignition switch get's its power from the starter solenoid through a fusible link.

If you ask me that's a really stupid arrangement. Why not use a fuse someplace that is easily accessible?

Any suggestions on how to get the starter out without pulling the header?

Brad

[cwf]

Cut the section of pipe in your way.

Remove starter

Reinstall pipe section using collars.... Handy for "next time" when u are on vacation and it quits. Remember Wally's words, "no changes, only improvements."

Relocate fusible link.

[Smartstream]

Brad I cant say for sure about your Argosy but on my 28' the fusible links are in a wire bundle that is to the left of the engine hatch under the drivers seat. It appears the Airstream wiring and the GM wiring join in that wire bundle. The dash power source starts at the battery terminal on the starter goes through a fusible link under the drivers seat and up to the amp gauge. From the amp gauge it goes to the ignition switch and head light switch. You should be able to check out the system and replace the fusible link without removing the starter unless the heat shield covers the battery terminal.

BTW I have never found a decent diagram of the joining of the Airstream and GM wiring systems.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by cwf

Cut the section of pipe in your way.

Remove starter

Reinstall pipe section using collars.... Handy for "next time" when u are on vacation and it quits. Remember Wally's words, "no changes, only improvements."

Relocate fusible link.

Hmm, cutting a pipe section, interesting idea but I think I'm going to have to pass

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Brad I cant say for sure about your Argosy but on my 28' the fusible links are in a wire bundle that is to the left of the engine hatch under the drivers seat. It appears the Airstream wiring and the GM wiring join in that wire bundle. The dash power source starts at the battery terminal on the starter goes through a fusible link under the drivers seat and up to the amp gauge. From the amp gauge it goes to the ignition switch and head light switch. You should be able to check out the system and replace the fusible link without removing the starter unless the heat shield covers the battery terminal.

BTW I have never found a decent diagram of the joining of the Airstream and GM wiring systems.

Dan,

Things just got a little weirder. Using a mirror I looked real close at the wiring at the starter and everything looks just fine. If a fusible link was bad I would expect to see some sort of exterior damage.

I bolted the starter back in place and decided to look elsewhere for my problem. I went back to the ignition switch and pulled the connector from the back of the switch and took voltage readings there. I got some really erratic readings but at times was reading 12.45 volts at the battery connector. That told me I was getting power from the starter solenoid up to the switch. Yet when I turn the ignition key nothing, nada, zilch happens.

On a hunch I decided to toggle the solenoid that ties the coach batteries into the chassis system and whadayaknow, it starts right up

I turned it off, tried to start normally and nothing. Toggled the solenoid and it starts right up. I repeated this three or four times, mainly because I was stumped as to why that would work. The engine stays running until I turn it off but unless the coach batteries are tied in it won't start.

The starting battery shows 12.6 volts and is only a few years old if I remember right. I can only assume I have a bad connection on either the battery + or - terminals or where the cables tie into the chassis. Considering how many times likely I've had the ground terminal off the battery I'm betting I have an issue somewhere in the + side of the system.

At least I don't have to remove that d*mn Banks header to remove the starter

[vswingfield]

Yea! You don't have to pull the starter!

If you ever do, you might consider a pretty well known Chevy starter mod. Switching to a remote solenoid. The starter solenoid has been known to suffer from the heat (hence the heat shield).

By using a Ford type solenoid, everything is away from the heat and easy to reach.

See:

Adding a Remote Starter Solenoid to your Chevy, My Way

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750

(Don't think I'd cut the header pipe either.)

[bkahler]

Problem solved. After it was all said and done, the positive battery terminal was not tight

Several months ago I was working on the steps and disconnected the positive cable at the battery. Apparently when I was completing that job I forgot to tighten the clamp nut on the cable. It was just tight enough to start the engine a few times before to much resistance built up in the joint.

This whole not starting issue started last Friday when I was swapping belts around on the A/C compressor and water pump (long story!). Anyway on Friday I disconnected the negative cable at the battery and did the work on the belts. I then reconnected the negative cable and started the engine. Had a squeal so I immediately turned it off to look things over. After that the engine wouldn't start again.

My first thought was the ignition switch went bad because the key switch felt like it was turning to far. Also before I ordered the switch I checked and there was voltage at the battery terminal. So I bought a replacement ignition switch and today I installed it hoping that would fix the problem. Didn't make a difference so I checked for voltage at the ignition switch again and this time there wasn't any which led me to trying to look at the starter solenoid and the fusible links. After looking closely at the fusible links I determined they were probably OK and re-installed the starter. It's so tight up in there I dropped the starter onto the header so I could wiggle it around to look at the wiring. There is no way that starter is coming out without removing the header though.

I then went back inside and that's when I decided to try the solenoid trick. You might say I went through a whole lot of work just to tighten the positive battery clamp bolt

Vaughn, the motorhome already has the remote relay conversion. It was done at the factory. Sometime after 1974 Chevy apparently started mounting a remote relay on a bracket that bolts to the top alternator mount.

Brad

[3 Dog Nite]

Brad, your efforts are not in vain. By sharing you have taught us how to start a moho by toggling the solenoids. This could get us back on the road & home in a pinch.

[wxbuoy]

Originally Posted by 3 Dog Nite

Brad, your efforts are not in vain. By sharing you have taught us how to start a moho by toggling the solenoids. This could get us back on the road & home in a pinch.

Agreed!!

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by 3 Dog Nite

Brad, your efforts are not in vain. By sharing you have taught us how to start a moho by toggling the solenoids. This could get us back on the road & home in a pinch.

Ricky,

After it was all said and done I sat down and tried to see if there was a point that should have pointed me to the positive battery cable and I couldn't find one. When I had done the step repair months ago I neglected to tighten the positive battery terminal. Yet the motorhome had been started many times since then with no issues. It always fired right off and cranked smoothly.

So when I started trouble shooting I tried to follow the chain of missing voltage back to it's source which led to the starter solenoid. Needless to say next time I'll definitely check the battery connections before suspecting the starter

Thanks for the support!

Brad

[cwf]

It is the simple stuff that makes you wanna have a bonfire.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by cwf

It is the simple stuff that makes you wanna have a bonfire.

Unfortunately the time for a bonfire is long past. I should have had one before I started this project. Just think of how much money I would have saved!

[BAB]

This is a lesson I have trouble learning. My Dad tried to pass it to me when I was about 17 years old and we were rebuilding a boat engine (the whole enchilada -- reboring, new rings/pistons, valves, etc.). He said, "son, when you have an engine problem, almost always it's going to be something really, really simple." So, I've also looked for a complex solution when I (join the club) forgot to tighten a battery clamp. Or when I rebuilt a carburetor and had a spring leftover. Sound familiar?

[choctawmel]

Well, I feel a little (no much) better about my 10 months to rebuild Silver Bullet's horse-ie stale. But I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night either. Partners in the lost mind.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by BAB

This is a lesson I have trouble learning. My Dad tried to pass it to me when I was about 17 years old and we were rebuilding a boat engine (the whole enchilada -- reboring, new rings/pistons, valves, etc.). He said, "son, when you have an engine problem, almost always it's going to be something really, really simple." So, I've also looked for a complex solution when I (join the club) forgot to tighten a battery clamp. Or when I rebuilt a carburetor and had a spring leftover. Sound familiar?

The funny thing is every step I took in the troubleshooting process made sense to me. Even after reviewed all that I had done I didn't see an obvious clue to check the battery cable clamp. It all comes down to always check the simplest things first

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by choctawmel

Well, I feel a little (no much) better about my 10 months to rebuild Silver Bullet's horse-ie stale. But I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night either. Partners in the lost mind.

This working on Airstreams sure is fun, isn't it Mel

[elbundi]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Ricky,

After it was all said and done I sat down and tried to see if there was a point that should have pointed me to the positive battery cable and I couldn't find one. When I had done the step repair months ago I neglected to tighten the positive battery terminal. Yet the motorhome had been started many times since then with no issues. It always fired right off and cranked smoothly.

So when I started trouble shooting I tried to follow the chain of missing voltage back to it's source which led to the starter solenoid. Needless to say next time I'll definitely check the battery connections before suspecting the starter

Thanks for the support!

Brad

Thanks for the info Brad.
I too had starting troubles which eventually led back to the ground connector on the coach battery. At the time I was connecting the ground to the smaller side terminals on the battery instead of the top posts. Over time the constant tightening of the side connector had pulled the internal connections of the battery loose.
Of course this had created a whole bunch of other ground issues which are now fixed. Yay

I have since removed the solenoid which connects the coach and house batteries and the coach positive cable now goes direct to the connector on the chassis which goes to the starter for the engine and the positive cable back to the generator.

I was thinking about putting in one of these and clearing out all the other pieces
PERKO Inc. - Battery Switches - Heavy Duty Battery Selector Switch with Alternator Field Disconnect Easy project for the next owner!

[choctawmel]

Originally Posted by bkahler

This working on Airstreams sure is fun, isn't it Mel

That it is! The NEW A/C compressor locked up on me. I went to the people I bought it and the drier from, "We need to look at if before we can warranty it." Well the only way they will warranty the dang compressor is for 'THEM' to fix it. They also said I had a hose leaking. I pulled a 30" vacuum over a week ago and it was still holding when I took my gauges off before I drove it to the shop!
On another note, the 'check light' was on all the way to the A/C shop. I did the 'jump' on the computer plug and no code! Just 12, 12, 12. The dang computer don't store codes.... I need an antique code reader for this 1990 computer.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by elbundi

Thanks for the info Brad.
I too had starting troubles which eventually led back to the ground connector on the coach battery. At the time I was connecting the ground to the smaller side terminals on the battery instead of the top posts. Over time the constant tightening of the side connector had pulled the internal connections of the battery loose.
Of course this had created a whole bunch of other ground issues which are now fixed. Yay

I have since removed the solenoid which connects the coach and house batteries and the coach positive cable now goes direct to the connector on the chassis which goes to the starter for the engine and the positive cable back to the generator.

I was thinking about putting in one of these and clearing out all the other pieces
PERKO Inc. - Battery Switches - Heavy Duty Battery Selector Switch with Alternator Field Disconnect Easy project for the next owner!

My 74 Argosy had a battery switch similar to the one from PERKO.



I'm not happy with where it was mounted and don't plan on re-installing it at the same location. If I can find a better location I might re-use it otherwise I'll just use a solenoid.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by choctawmel

That it is! The NEW A/C compressor locked up on me. I went to the people I bought it and the drier from, "We need to look at if before we can warranty it." Well the only way they will warranty the dang compressor is for 'THEM' to fix it. They also said I had a hose leaking. I pulled a 30" vacuum over a week ago and it was still holding when I took my gauges off before I drove it to the shop!
On another note, the 'check light' was on all the way to the A/C shop. I did the 'jump' on the computer plug and no code! Just 12, 12, 12. The dang computer don't store codes.... I need an antique code reader for this 1990 computer.

Mel, You don't need A/C in Oklahoma do you?

You've certainly had your share of poor quality parts and customer service on your rebuild. One of these days things are bound to get better.