Radiator; no more recoreing locally!

[WayneG]

Originally Posted by bkahler

How did you install the thermocouples you've been using for monitoring temperatures?

I use type K thermocouple wire to a usb thermocouple module.
I did a lot of temperature measurement at work so I used similar techniques to try and be as accurate as possible.
For the engine thermostat I drilled a hole in a threaded rod for a spare bolt hole near it. A older version of my TBI shows that in the top of the photo.
For the transmission and engine oil temps I clamped the TC wire to the outgoing hot cooling lines and then insulated them. I did not have a good spot for the radiator cooled output so I just clamped it to one of the brass plugs for the unused engine oil cooler on the pass side.

[WayneG]

Transmission cooler is installed, along with a new mounting for the electric fan.
I was going to test it out this weekend with a run in the Catskills, but I ran behind on the install and the weather sucks anyway, so instead I am working on my web pages.

As usual, it is a work in progress, some new photos are up, I still need to put up some images with radiator dimensions and the charts with the temperature logging results.
I am a bit concerned with the color of the transmission fluid, it is not a bright red like fresh out of the can, it is a dull read and a bit cloudy. It may be because it has been in there for 20+ years?

I took a sample for Blackstone to analyze.

http://theouterlimits.ws/projects/ai...e_cooling.html



I should probably swap out the original oil cooler, it has been well abused by previous mechanics

[bkahler]

Wayne,

Looking good

After 20+ years it might be time to replace your tranny fluid!!

Maybe I missed it but I don't see the condenser for your dash AC. Is it there somewhere?

Brad

[WayneG]

I pulled my compressor and condenser a few years ago to save weight and heat load. It was not working well and recharging only lasted a season. It is stashed away with the other spare parts for when I get ambitious to fix and reinstall it.
All the new work I just did attaches to the top & bottom of the radiator frame. The A/C condenser attaches to the sides. I just need to add spacers to the new framework to make room for the A/C parts.
On hot driving days I use the rooftop A/C to avoid cooking

[WayneG]

As per my data logging methods, it is a simple setup using a Measurement Computing TC-USB that reads 8 thermocouples. I send that data to their logging program TracerDAQ I can store a log file to read into a spreadsheet.


For engine data I use a ALDL to USB cable to send data to the laptop running WinALDL, a simple program for logging engine data.

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by WayneG

As per my data logging methods, it is a simple setup using a Measurement Computing TC-USB that reads 8 thermocouples. I send that data to their logging program TracerDAQ I can store a log file to read into a spreadsheet.


For engine data I use a ALDL to USB cable to send data to the laptop running WinALDL, a simple program for logging engine data.

That looks like a nice thermocouple logging system. A little too pricey for me but I'd like to find something that could log a couple of thermocouples. Got any suggestions?!

I use TunerPro RT for logging the engine data. It's the same program used by the guy that's doing my programming. Makes it easy to send him data

[WayneG]

I have the Turner software, I just never got it running, someday I should try again.


As for the TC to usb modules, they use to be cheap 20 years ago, but there is less competition to keep prices down now.


I did find a 4 input device, I have no clue how well it works or what logging software will work with it, it is cheap enough at $35
https://www.robotshop.com/en/phidget...interface.html

[bkahler]

Originally Posted by WayneG

I have the Turner software, I just never got it running, someday I should try again.


As for the TC to usb modules, they use to be cheap 20 years ago, but there is less competition to keep prices down now.


I did find a 4 input device, I have no clue how well it works or what logging software will work with it, it is cheap enough at $35
https://www.robotshop.com/en/phidget...interface.html

Wayne, the vint4 module has a lot of potential. It looks like I would need one of these: $35
VINT 4 thermocouple input module


One of these ($30)
VINT Hub


Some of this ($4/meter)
thermocouple wire

A couple of these ($16 each)
thermocouples


And time to brush up on my C or Python programming skills
https://www.phidgets.com/docs/Softwa...System_Support


Definitely cheaper than the system you've been using and should provide all the information I'd be looking for. Probably finding the time to do the programming would be the hardest part of the project!

Just what I need.....another project

Brad

[WayneG]

I am rusty with C, Fortran, but still doing OK in Pascal.
Here is data from my run yesterday:

The top line (Orange) shows the elevation that the temperature data was acquired at.
The solid lines show the temperatures output by the engine coolant , oil and transmission.
The dashed lines show the cooled fluids returning to the engine and transmission.
The dotted lines show the temperature differential between the uncooled and cooled fluids.

This test was done with the Motorhome unloaded on a 75 deg. day.
The seven mile uphill run had about 1000 feet of rise and was done at 55 MPH
The engine oil and the transmission fluid temperatures climbed to 230 - 240 deg. F. briefly, typically they stayed between 200 & 225 deg. F..
The engine temperature at the thermostat held at 190 deg. F. for the entire trip.
The transmission fluid and engine coolant returning from the heat exchanger and radiator stayed between 100 and 175 deg. F.


I would say that with a unloaded motorhome the radiator and new transmission cooler are doing well. By the looks of the fluid return temperatures they are working fine at the current load.

I still need to do a test with all my gear and the 4 wheeler in tow. I will do that in mid June when I go work at Harley Rendezvous.

[Magnet18]

Originally Posted by WayneG

I am rusty with C, Fortran, but still doing OK in Pascal.
Here is data from my run yesterday:

The top line (Orange) shows the elevation that the temperature data was acquired at.
The solid lines show the temperatures output by the engine coolant , oil and transmission.
The dashed lines show the cooled fluids returning to the engine and transmission.
The dotted lines show the temperature differential between the uncooled and cooled fluids.

This test was done with the Motorhome unloaded on a 75 deg. day.
The seven mile uphill run had about 1000 feet of rise and was done at 55 MPH
The engine oil and the transmission fluid temperatures climbed to 230 - 240 deg. F. briefly, typically they stayed between 200 & 225 deg. F..
The engine temperature at the thermostat held at 190 deg. F. for the entire trip.
The transmission fluid and engine coolant returning from the heat exchanger and radiator stayed between 100 and 175 deg. F.


I would say that with a unloaded motorhome the radiator and new transmission cooler are doing well. By the looks of the fluid return temperatures they are working fine at the current load.

I still need to do a test with all my gear and the 4 wheeler in tow. I will do that in mid June when I go work at Harley Rendezvous.

Very cool!

Any chance you can run it to a tablet mounted up front somewhere for a real time display?

[WayneG]

Originally Posted by Magnet18

Very cool!

Any chance you can run it to a tablet mounted up front somewhere for a real time display?

I just use a laptop to take the live data. If I were more ambitious, I could write software to suit this application better. Not until winter hits again.


I just added one more mod to help with the cooling:

One modification that I just added was to a dash switch that controls the radiator fan. The diagram above shows the circuit. All it does is to switch the fan between thermostat control, continuous run, and off. I used a lighted switch that has LED's that will turn on only when the fan is running.

One extra feature of this setup is a wire that I added that sends +12 volts to the ECM unit so that when the fan is on, it kicks up the idle slightly. This does two things, first, with the idle up, the alternator turns faster supplying more current to the fan.

Second, the higher RPM's also allow the water pump to spin faster, so the coolant flow is higher through the engine and radiator.

Normally the signal to the ECM would come from the air conditioner clutch for higher RPM's I have removed my AC parts. If anyone wants to duplicate this circuit, they should add a diode in series with the wire from the AC clutch going to the ECM. this will prevent interference between the two signals.

[Magnet18]

Slick

I notice when in thermostat mode the LED only lights up when the fan is on instead of all the time. That's on purpose?

[WayneG]

Originally Posted by Magnet18

Slick

I notice when in thermostat mode the LED only lights up when the fan is on instead of all the time. That's on purpose?

Yes, that way I know when it is running, usually I can tell by its roar, but sometimes with a lot of road noise, I cant tell if it is on.

[WayneG]

I did a fully loaded run on the same roads yesterday.
Motorhome fairly full. About 2500 pounds of trailer in tow.
Outdoor temps about 75.

The water pump fan only came on a few times and the same for the electric fan. My old radiator would have had both fans screaming all the way up the hill.

The trans. fluid temp crossed 250 briefly at the peak load.

The "cooled" trans & engine coolant numbers (dashed lines) look good to me, hanging fairly steady below 150F.

The trans. fluid differential shows the radiator and external cooler combo was pulling 100 deg. out of the fluid before returning it to the transmission.


I need to work with the engine data to see how much variation I get between RPMs and MPH to see if there is too much transmission slip, but overall I am less worried about this radiator after I added the external transmission cooler.

[bkahler]

Wayne, the numbers look good.

What are the units for the x-axis, minutes?

[WayneG]

Originally Posted by bkahler

Wayne, the numbers look good.

What are the units for the x-axis, minutes?

Arbitrary, 1 unit per sample. The total trip was about 35 min. long

[bkahler]

The only thing number that might concern me is the peak temperature on the transmission output. It seems a little high but I'm no expert!

Brad

[WayneG]

Originally Posted by bkahler

The only thing number that might concern me is the peak temperature on the transmission output. It seems a little high but I'm no expert!

Brad

It is possible that I am having slippage in the transmission That is why I need to check the rpm's vs speed to see what is up but I dont have my spread sheet program out here in the woods. That will be next sundays project.

The trans. fluid is also not the pure red stuff it once was. It is a dull red and less clear to see through.

[Magnet18]

Have you considered running a line from your fresh water to a mister in front of the radiator, just to flip on when it needs it most, like hill pulls?
I'm considering it, a 12V pump and some hose, i hear misting the radiator gives it a significant cooling capacity boost but I haven't looked into the numbers too much

[WayneG]

I have it installed with a switch on the dash. I just use the fresh water pump with a line run to the front.