Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2018, 11:32 PM   #57
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
The coolers with fans look good, but pricey. I have enough real estate for the 8x11 cooler up front so the fan should not be needed, but I guess I could add one if needed.
For the B&M unit they recommend running the fluid through the radiator heat exchanger first then through the air cooled one. I guess this allows the fluid to be warmed up faster on cold days (not my favorite traveling weather) The air cooled exchanger removes excess heat above the engine coolant temp.
https://static.summitracing.com/glob...er_techdoc.pdf

Saturday I took a quick peek inside the old brass radiator tank and it looks like there is a 4 layer pancake heat exchanger inside.
I'm guessing that has a lot more surface area and enough flow restriction to give the tranny fluid time to transfer heat, compared to the simple cylinder used in the aluminum radiator with minimal area and fast flow reducing heat transfer.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMM-bm_cooler_techdoc.pdf (578.1 KB, 9 views)
__________________

__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 05:01 AM   #58
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,479
Pricey is right! I ended up just buying the cooler and then bought a fan off of ebay and made my own mounting brackets. I just hope a 20K unit is enough for a transmission that doesn't doesn't route the cooling through the radiator first. I guess I'll find out once I start driving it.

You would think there would be plenty of room under the chassis for mounting a cooler but on a 20' there's surprisingly little room!

How did you install the thermocouples you've been using for monitoring temperatures?
__________________

__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 05:30 AM   #59
Rivet Master
 
Boom Sounds's Avatar
 
1991 25' Airstream 250
Oxford , Oxfordshire
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 953
Images: 5
These look expensive, but are they a worthwhile investment to protect the transmission? https://www.etrailer.com/Transmissio...le/D14207.html
Boom Sounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 05:37 AM   #60
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Sounds View Post
These look expensive, but are they a worthwhile investment to protect the transmission? https://www.etrailer.com/Transmissio...le/D14207.html
I have that pan installed as well. Fortunately it's a lot cheaper ($121) through Summit Racing.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 12:34 PM   #61
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
How did you install the thermocouples you've been using for monitoring temperatures?
I use type K thermocouple wire to a usb thermocouple module.
I did a lot of temperature measurement at work so I used similar techniques to try and be as accurate as possible.
For the engine thermostat I drilled a hole in a threaded rod for a spare bolt hole near it. A older version of my TBI shows that in the top of the photo.
For the transmission and engine oil temps I clamped the TC wire to the outgoing hot cooling lines and then insulated them. I did not have a good spot for the radiator cooled output so I just clamped it to one of the brass plugs for the unused engine oil cooler on the pass side.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TBI.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	134.6 KB
ID:	310930  
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2018, 07:30 AM   #62
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
Transmission cooler is installed, along with a new mounting for the electric fan.
I was going to test it out this weekend with a run in the Catskills, but I ran behind on the install and the weather sucks anyway, so instead I am working on my web pages.

As usual, it is a work in progress, some new photos are up, I still need to put up some images with radiator dimensions and the charts with the temperature logging results.
I am a bit concerned with the color of the transmission fluid, it is not a bright red like fresh out of the can, it is a dull read and a bit cloudy. It may be because it has been in there for 20+ years?

I took a sample for Blackstone to analyze.

http://theouterlimits.ws/projects/ai...e_cooling.html



I should probably swap out the original oil cooler, it has been well abused by previous mechanics
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2018, 09:11 AM   #63
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,479
Wayne,

Looking good

After 20+ years it might be time to replace your tranny fluid!!

Maybe I missed it but I don't see the condenser for your dash AC. Is it there somewhere?

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2018, 10:10 AM   #64
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
I pulled my compressor and condenser a few years ago to save weight and heat load. It was not working well and recharging only lasted a season. It is stashed away with the other spare parts for when I get ambitious to fix and reinstall it.
All the new work I just did attaches to the top & bottom of the radiator frame. The A/C condenser attaches to the sides. I just need to add spacers to the new framework to make room for the A/C parts.
On hot driving days I use the rooftop A/C to avoid cooking
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 12:48 PM   #65
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
As per my data logging methods, it is a simple setup using a Measurement Computing TC-USB that reads 8 thermocouples. I send that data to their logging program TracerDAQ I can store a log file to read into a spreadsheet.


For engine data I use a ALDL to USB cable to send data to the laptop running WinALDL, a simple program for logging engine data.
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 02:59 PM   #66
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG View Post
As per my data logging methods, it is a simple setup using a Measurement Computing TC-USB that reads 8 thermocouples. I send that data to their logging program TracerDAQ I can store a log file to read into a spreadsheet.


For engine data I use a ALDL to USB cable to send data to the laptop running WinALDL, a simple program for logging engine data.
That looks like a nice thermocouple logging system. A little too pricey for me but I'd like to find something that could log a couple of thermocouples. Got any suggestions?!

I use TunerPro RT for logging the engine data. It's the same program used by the guy that's doing my programming. Makes it easy to send him data
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 03:49 PM   #67
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
I have the Turner software, I just never got it running, someday I should try again.


As for the TC to usb modules, they use to be cheap 20 years ago, but there is less competition to keep prices down now.


I did find a 4 input device, I have no clue how well it works or what logging software will work with it, it is cheap enough at $35
https://www.robotshop.com/en/phidget...interface.html
__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 07:20 AM   #68
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG View Post
I have the Turner software, I just never got it running, someday I should try again.


As for the TC to usb modules, they use to be cheap 20 years ago, but there is less competition to keep prices down now.


I did find a 4 input device, I have no clue how well it works or what logging software will work with it, it is cheap enough at $35
https://www.robotshop.com/en/phidget...interface.html
Wayne, the vint4 module has a lot of potential. It looks like I would need one of these: $35
VINT 4 thermocouple input module


One of these ($30)
VINT Hub


Some of this ($4/meter)
thermocouple wire

A couple of these ($16 each)
thermocouples


And time to brush up on my C or Python programming skills
https://www.phidgets.com/docs/Softwa...System_Support


Definitely cheaper than the system you've been using and should provide all the information I'd be looking for. Probably finding the time to do the programming would be the hardest part of the project!

Just what I need.....another project

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 02:11 PM   #69
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
I am rusty with C, Fortran, but still doing OK in Pascal.
Here is data from my run yesterday:

The top line (Orange) shows the elevation that the temperature data was acquired at.
The solid lines show the temperatures output by the engine coolant , oil and transmission.
The dashed lines show the cooled fluids returning to the engine and transmission.
The dotted lines show the temperature differential between the uncooled and cooled fluids.

This test was done with the Motorhome unloaded on a 75 deg. day.
The seven mile uphill run had about 1000 feet of rise and was done at 55 MPH
The engine oil and the transmission fluid temperatures climbed to 230 - 240 deg. F. briefly, typically they stayed between 200 & 225 deg. F..
The engine temperature at the thermostat held at 190 deg. F. for the entire trip.
The transmission fluid and engine coolant returning from the heat exchanger and radiator stayed between 100 and 175 deg. F.


I would say that with a unloaded motorhome the radiator and new transmission cooler are doing well. By the looks of the fluid return temperatures they are working fine at the current load.

I still need to do a test with all my gear and the 4 wheeler in tow. I will do that in mid June when I go work at Harley Rendezvous.


__________________
Do not take life too seriously.
You will never get out of it alive.
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 06:13 AM   #70
Rivet Master
 
Magnet18's Avatar
 
Churubusco , Indiana
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 859
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG View Post
I am rusty with C, Fortran, but still doing OK in Pascal.
Here is data from my run yesterday:

The top line (Orange) shows the elevation that the temperature data was acquired at.
The solid lines show the temperatures output by the engine coolant , oil and transmission.
The dashed lines show the cooled fluids returning to the engine and transmission.
The dotted lines show the temperature differential between the uncooled and cooled fluids.

This test was done with the Motorhome unloaded on a 75 deg. day.
The seven mile uphill run had about 1000 feet of rise and was done at 55 MPH
The engine oil and the transmission fluid temperatures climbed to 230 - 240 deg. F. briefly, typically they stayed between 200 & 225 deg. F..
The engine temperature at the thermostat held at 190 deg. F. for the entire trip.
The transmission fluid and engine coolant returning from the heat exchanger and radiator stayed between 100 and 175 deg. F.


I would say that with a unloaded motorhome the radiator and new transmission cooler are doing well. By the looks of the fluid return temperatures they are working fine at the current load.

I still need to do a test with all my gear and the 4 wheeler in tow. I will do that in mid June when I go work at Harley Rendezvous.


Very cool!

Any chance you can run it to a tablet mounted up front somewhere for a real time display?
__________________

Magnet18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
See more. Do more. Live more...? Mike91208 Airstream Lifestyle 2 01-26-2012 06:56 AM
Buying locally...an obligation to our neighbors? Denis4x4 Off Topic Forum 49 12-06-2010 01:07 AM
locally sourced organic Airstreams Globie64 On The Road... 6 11-01-2009 09:17 PM
SikaFlex 221 buy locally? rogerdodger Leaks - Weatherstrips, Gaskets, Caulks & Sealants 17 10-18-2008 05:37 PM
Can I get "D" gasket locally? pinkflamingoes Windows & Screens 5 04-18-2007 06:30 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.