Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-03-2014, 09:15 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
dadstoy's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
_ , _
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,382
R-12 Dash AC Recharge Help

My A/C has lost its charge this summer. I need to get it recharged before Burning Man in 3 weeks. I'm guessing the high pressure hose from the compressor to the condenser has a slight leak...it is a bit oily and dirty around the hose to fitting area.

I could take the mh to my favorite shop and get the job done, but I know I won't walk out of there with less then a $500 bill, which just isn't in the budget at the moment.

I have a half dozen cans of R-12 and the R-12 recharge hose. I've recharged my truck with the R-134a system using the "Autozone" recharging cans before, but I've never done a R-12 system.

If anyone has any words of wisdom for me bring it on!


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
May a Firefly land upon your shoulder
and bring you good luck, good fortune, and abundance.
dadstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 09:16 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
dadstoy's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
_ , _
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,382
Also, I'm not planning on opening up the system at this time, just recharging it.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
May a Firefly land upon your shoulder
and bring you good luck, good fortune, and abundance.
dadstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 09:58 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Smartstream's Avatar

 
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,942
I would highly recommend you replace the hose and recharge. Not getting into legalities, whatever you put in will be gone before you get to the desert. If you have no Freon in the system replacing the hose is no big deal. Pump a vacuum, add a little oil and add Freon. It's also a good time to convert to 134a if that's what you decide but dumping Freon into a leaking system is not a good idea.

To answer your question charge through the low pressure port and if you have a sight glass charge until all bubbles are gone and test system. You will probably use 2 1/2 to 3 cans.
__________________
Cheers, Dan
________________________________________


"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them."
~ Margaret Thatcher ~
Smartstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2014, 10:04 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Jim Foster's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods , California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
Send a message via Yahoo to Jim Foster
R-12 Dash A/C Recharge Help

Hook up a set of gauges and see if there is any pressure in the system. If there is, adding R12 will most likely get your system going, perhaps for an extended time. If no pressure, the leak is probably large and adding R12 will be a waste of time and R12.
If the cooling has diminished over time adding my work. If it quit cooling suddenly, that would indicate a large leak, perhaps a hose failure or bad compressor seal.
If there is proper pressure in the system, and the compressor is working, and there is still no cooling, it may be the expansion valve. Some systems use a tube with a small opening rather than an actual expansion valve. In this case the system must be opened and repaired.

Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
__________________
Past President, El Camino Real Unit WBCCI#6620
Street Rod Builder (see avatar)
Kite flier (check out links below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3nuNtlZcA&t=331s
https://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhee
Jim Foster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 01:12 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Spend the money or do without.

Hi, I know it's easy for me to say this especially since it's not my money, but fix it right or do without air conditioning.


Do you have a generator and roof air?
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 02:38 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
Images: 11
I would fix the hose. You CAN carefully cut off the crimp collars, remove the rubber hose from the barbs and put a new piece of A/C hose on the barbs secured with good hose clamps.

And yea, you are supposed to vac out the system, but if you don't leave the system open for long and tape the ends up while you deal with the hose you can get away without doing so with only a marginal loss of cooling capacity.

Hose clamps are used a lot on aftermarket systems, and they will work well under most circumstances.

I vac out my systems since I have a pump, but I didn't before I got one.

The real enemy isn't so much a little air in the system as it is moisture (that a vac pump removes) If the system is sealed against humidity for a short time you can get away without pumping the air out .
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 11:28 PM   #7
1 Rivet Member
 
jeffyork40's Avatar
 
1977 28' Argosy 28
Lexington , Kentucky
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 9
Images: 4
Can I jump in. I blew an AC hose

I blew and AC hose a couple of weeks ago. I can see the hole where the hose was rubbing up against the engine cowling cover. OK, so its been sitting with an open hole in the system. When it happened, I got one heck of a blow of freon coming in the vents and also out of the fender wells.

So, obviously I need a hose. I guess I can buy one at the local auto parts store. Then what else do I need ? I have heard I should buy a new dryer as well. Then what ? Vac the sytem if I can find a vac at the local Harbor Frieght. Then replace with R134. How many ounces should I expect to put in ? I have some cheap gauges.
jeffyork40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 09:23 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
Images: 11
R-12 Dash A/C Recharge Help

Repair or replace the hose.

The hose may or may not be available in a prefab.

Depending on the ends, you may be able to have a hose made up, many NAPA stores are able to make hoses.

You may want to save the old hose ends and have them put on new hoses with new crimp collars or good hose clamps.

Keep in mind, if the hose is otherwise good, you may be able to splice the hose back together where it is worn through using a tight fitting double barb.

A new dryer is always advisable, and a good vacuuming out is better than not.

When converting from R 12 to 134A they say it is important to use a compatible oil with the old R12 oil that is in the system.

I had researched this and have always used Ester oil, but last time I was in the parts store the normally excellent parts guy swore that PAG was better. I have not reinvestigated the matter to date.

I have used ester oil on these conversions dozens of times with no problem.
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2015, 06:54 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
bobmiller1's Avatar

 
2005 34' Classic S/O
2006 39' Land Yacht 396 XL
north blenheim , New York
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,847
Hey Dean, How did you make out with your R-12 dash air conditioning ?
bobmiller1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2015, 11:35 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
dadstoy's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
_ , _
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,382
Hey Bob. Well it was a very expensive repair, but necessary for us to go to Burning Man last year. As many of us MH owners know, it is almost impossible to drive these things without dash air. With all the glass up front, outside temp above 70 and any sun on the glass at all and it is a miserable drive without the air.

I had the shop in north Redding that I use do the work. They do a great job and I trust them 100%. But it was pretty expensive this time around. The compressor was leaking and a high pressure hose was shot.

That "old" type of compressor is available, but the particular configuration with the pulley setup on it is very rare. They tried for most of the day to locate one...only luck was one out of Texas and it would take days to get it. Of course, I waited until the last minute to get the A/C fixed and Burning Man was few days out.

So I suggested they get just the compressor locally and swap the clutch and pulley from the old unit. There are cheap compressors and expensive ones, we went with the expensive one hoping it will last forever. The shop also spent time surfacing the clutch surface to ensure a properly working clutch...that added "a lot" of labor cost.

They had a new hose made up locally. So new compressor, hose and dryer.

I had always thought the system was R-12...of course it originally was. Somewhere along the line, my dad had converted it to R-132a. I donated my 5 cans of R-12 to the shop since I would never need them.

Well, at the end it was $1000 for parts and $800 for labor...ouch! It worked great on the trip to BM last August and the trip to Yosemite last November.
dadstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2015, 04:53 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
bobmiller1's Avatar

 
2005 34' Classic S/O
2006 39' Land Yacht 396 XL
north blenheim , New York
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,847
Let me know if you ever have a problem with the compressor, on the east coast we have shops that can rebuild anything. Also remember that R-134 uses PAG oil, which eats rubber AC lines and black O-rings, R-12 uses Ester oil which is OK with the neoprene lines. Head pressures run considerably higher on R-134 than R-12, so keep an eye on your electric fan switch(usually mounted to the receiver/dryer) so that it keeps your electric fans on to keep the head pressure low especially while at low RPM or idling.
bobmiller1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2021, 02:47 PM   #12
3 Rivet Member
 
LM782's Avatar
 
1985 34.5' Airstream 345
Lexington , Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 174
To the best of my understanding, our '85 345 cab AC is still configured for R12. The clutch on our compressor isn't engaging, which I was told can be due to various reasons.

Does anyone have suggestions and/or recommendations on who works with R12 systems in the greater Boston area or northeast?

Upgrading to R134a is likely the better long-term option, the couple shops I talked to about it are talking big bucks.

Luis
LM782 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2021, 04:20 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
bobmiller1's Avatar

 
2005 34' Classic S/O
2006 39' Land Yacht 396 XL
north blenheim , New York
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,847
I was just over in Marshfield working on Charly’s (Streamquest)’s 370LE. We pulled a vacuum on his system.....no leaks. I’ll be returning there sometime in June to recharge his system with R-12. If that interests you, let me know, you can drive your rig down to his place and we’ll get it done. Price per pound....$125.00 Regards, Bob
bobmiller1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 06:53 AM   #14
3 Rivet Member
 
LM782's Avatar
 
1985 34.5' Airstream 345
Lexington , Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 174
Did a little reading last night on AC, and Charly's 370LE. The latter is quite a story.

I'll message you directly to save readers the gory details on our whereabouts and schedules.


Luis
LM782 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 12:30 PM   #15
3 Rivet Member
 
LM782's Avatar
 
1985 34.5' Airstream 345
Lexington , Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 174
R12 vs R134a

I need help deciding whether to fix my R12 cab AC, or upgrade to R134a. Or… potentially forgo it all together.

After making more than 20 calls, other than Bob Miller, I found no one that will work with R12 in my coach. Bob kindly offered to recharge the R12, but undoubtedly there’s troubleshooting and at least one repair to do first.

As a result of how restrictive it is to work with R12, I’m considering an R134a upgrade. The tough part is the shops I’ve talked to want $3-5k for the upgrade. Big cash for a function that will get relatively little use (maybe 20 times a year, or 50 bucks every time I use the cab AC for 5 years). I could use the money to buy new tires, which have a more important roll (pun intended).

To start troubleshooting the R12 repair, one of the shops suggested pressing on the Schrader valves to test if there’s any refrigerant left in the system now. Far as I can tell there isn’t, which could indicate a not-small leak to fix (found one of the fittings covered in black soot). Not sure if it’s normal, but the front of the compressor is also covered in a black soot (and Bob recommends replacing the receiver/dryer).

So… is fixing the system and working with R12 just a waste of time and money in 2021?

Luis
LM782 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 12:57 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
2009 34' Panamerica
2005 28' Classic
Still , in the thick of it
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 677
You might consider switching to R12a (HC-12c). I did some changes before it was prohibited in 1995.

There are two camps on this:

1) Who have done it without issues
2) Those who would advocate against doing it because of the flammability isssues

Having run this in a number of R-12 refrigeration system (both mobile and stationary) it's worked well. I do not know if you can still get it in the states, but it was a viable option at one point.

If not, you really can spend a fortune on R12 or you can bite the bullet and swap out and go R-134a which like everything else causes cancer.

Here one convo from a car forum about this exact topic:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...-hc12a.135529/
panamerican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 01:13 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,153
Blog Entries: 4
Ouch!

Luis, that’s a tough call given the high cost of R12. It’s like the cigarette tax now, you can still buy them but the incentive is not to.

We were parked next to a 5th wheel last year with two very large dogs. The guy hooked up a Champion Dual-Fuel generator on the back of the trailer and ran it while towing to run the AC in the trailer - the dogs were too big to fit inside the truck with his two small kids.

If you have working rooftop AC, I wonder if you couldn’t do something similar or get one of these portable AC units that vent through a hose. Just trying to think of more affordable options…
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FED9233D-90B3-4C7C-B0CD-A0971D4E0D55.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	136.1 KB
ID:	395415  
__________________
2019 27’ Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 03:06 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
bobmiller1's Avatar

 
2005 34' Classic S/O
2006 39' Land Yacht 396 XL
north blenheim , New York
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,847
I think my head is going to explode.......Regards, Bob
bobmiller1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 06:15 PM   #19
3 Rivet Member
 
LM782's Avatar
 
1985 34.5' Airstream 345
Lexington , Massachusetts
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 174
Bob! No no no ! Your head can’t explode. Mine already has. Our gray matter bits will mix. It won’t be pretty.

You are the one beacon of light in the dark swamp of air conditioning.

I can’t find anyone to fix potential problems and pull a vacuum before you charge it.

For whatever multitude of reasons, we haven’t been able to find anyone to do our chassis repairs. As a result, I’m left to my own devices to fix them - all (and I don’t have to tell anyone here how big that list is). Complicating matters, our driveway is not level so any job involving jacking it up means doing it somewhere else (outside) and schlepping tools back and forth (inevitably forgetting a number of things).

Between Covid and our coach, my day job has taken a wallop for over a year. Fixing the AC was the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back.

All that said, I am fortunate to be the coach’s caretaker. I bought it from a friend, a retired Navy Seal, and got 35 years of receipts. My plan is to take care of it for the next generation and hope that the next owner thinks I did a good job. I’ll start a new post to chronicle our journey as its caretakers.

Luis
LM782 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 06:38 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
jeffmc306's Avatar
 
2019 27' Globetrotter
McHenry , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,153
Blog Entries: 4
Sorry Bob

Bob, sorry I wasn't trying to draw that kind of reaction. I was a NSE certified GM mechanic back in the '70's and did my share of A/C repairs. A pound can of R12 used to cost a few bucks. I get it you want to keep the unit intact. Sorry!
__________________
2019 27’ Globetrotter FBT Walnut/Dublin Slate
2018 FC23FB
2019 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi Laramie Blue Ox 1000#
WBCCI# 10258
RETIRED!
jeffmc306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! 1974 a/c needs recharge Jcashcollect Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 5 08-03-2013 09:17 AM
Battery drain and recharge question Pomfritz Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 1 09-09-2010 03:58 PM
Recharge Time henw Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 37 01-28-2010 02:41 PM
1975 Argosy roof AC, recharge? Apache_Camp Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 1 08-10-2009 08:28 AM
Best/quickest way to recharge batteries? OB Bambi Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 11 07-25-2009 06:58 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.