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Old 04-20-2014, 07:57 PM   #57
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1986 34.5' Airstream 345
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I had a problem with 'pushing' fuel from tank to TB. A holley electric pump was already at the tank so I installed the injector pump on the frame rail where the filter was, ran to the inside to the frame and up to the rear of the TB.
Only problem was when I lost 12V to the holley pump by the tank and that killed the injector pump. Replaced both pumps before I found the 12V problem to the holley pump. Had to replace the wire from front to rear. GM/Airstream had used mutable crimp splices in the wire and after 25 years they didn't quite connect all the time anymore.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:31 PM   #58
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OK the 2" throttle body arrived yesterday and since they only sent the base, I needed to swap the pod with the injectors on it from the small bore body to the large bore body. But with my luck do you think it would fit? NOPE
There is an alignment post on the pod which is .36" in diameter, the large bore body only has a opening .25" in diameter.
SO I sent off another email to AFI, and they said to grind off the post!
This is turning into a Fuster Cluck real fast.
I decided that I am not going to wait any longer, and I will just use the smaller bore throttle body.

Getting over my disappointment with AFI, today I installed the throttle body, and remaining lines & wires. With fire extinguisher standing by, I cranked the engine. It tried to start, but would not run.
I pulled the air cleaner off and found fuel on top of one of the injectors and dripping into the bore. I pulled the electric connectors off the injectors and cranked the motor and it started to run! Not well, but there was enough fuel dripping from the injector that it kept the engine running. I shut it off and cracked a beer to ponder the problem.
I did a quick search online and found reference about leaking injectors due to the fuel pressure being to high.
Next I turned the key to start the pump while watching the fuel pressure gauge and sure enough it was not 15 to 20 psi, the gauge was up over 30.
Next I pulled the return line off the throttle body and used a small compressor to blow air into it. I got it up to 20psi and there was no flow out the return line.
It looks like I will need to trace out the blockage in the return line back to the tank. It is raining now, so that will have to wait.
I hope I dont have to drop the tank, I have about 40 gallons in there. I guess I could siphon some out to the car, but it will take me a month to use 40 gallons in the car.
Time for another brew!
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:48 PM   #59
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Sounds to like AFI is not being very reputable. I would have sent back the entire TB and told them to replace it with the correct one. Hope it all works out in the end.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:17 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92landyacht View Post
Sounds to like AFI is not being very reputable. I would have sent back the entire TB and told them to replace it with the correct one. Hope it all works out in the end.
I am not sure about reputable, but their Quality control needs improvement.
Looking over my photos I noticed that the part number on the injector is for a smaller engine, so I emailed AFI AGAIN:
Quote:
....Looking at the injectors, I notice they are not identical but both have the same color code (Yel-Blu) The part number on one of them is GM5235203 which crosses out to 45 lb per hour for a 4.3 liter engine, not a 7.4 which I would guess by the charts, should be a higher flow.....
AFI's reply was:
Quote:
....GM in 93 changed over to using smaller injectors (4.3L) at a higher pressure, 30 psi. If you have 30 psi it is working as it should......
So my pressure was not too high, but the injector should not have leaked.

This afternoon I crawled under and checked the return line from the engine to the tank, all lines looked good. Then I did some further testing with compressed air and there is no need to pull the tank. The return line is fine. I think I had the back pressure trying to blow air through it because of the long run of 1/4" tubing back to the tank. I disconnected the end at the mechanical fuel pump and blew air to the tank with no problem, I did the same to the throttle body and it was clear also.

I put it all back together and turned on the fuel pump I got 30 PSI and found fuel was leaking out of a recessed screw in the top-center of the right injector. In the last email reply they are sending me a replacement pod.
Quote:
Never witnessed that in 15 years and thousands of these built, don't know what to say; we pressure test each one before it goes out. I will send you a complete new pod to install.
So another delay, but at least they are doing their best to help me get this system working.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:25 PM   #61
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The new pod assembly should be here Saturday, That is about how long it will take me to get my stored plates out of the local NY DMV office.

Side tracking a bit, did any of your motorhomes come with air horns, one on each side? This photo is when I got this one in September 2012
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:54 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG View Post
The new pod assembly should be here Saturday, That is about how long it will take me to get my stored plates out of the local NY DMV office.

Side tracking a bit, did any of your motorhomes come with air horns, one on each side? This photo is when I got this one in September 2012

Mine has 2 air horns on the roof above the drivers seat. The compressor is hidden behind a panel at the front of the street side overhead compartment.
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:31 PM   #63
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By the way the lines were run, mine look like a factory install. The air compressor is there anyway for the rear air ride system.
Anyway UPS will have the injector pod here on Saturday (weather permitting) I hope it is early enough to give it test tomorrow afternoon.
More fun today, I went to DMV to retrieve my personalized plates out of storage. After an hour in line waiting I got the the counter, and after another 45 min of searching, they could not find my plates. So I have temp plates until they can make me a new set.
This whole project is reminding me of He Haw when they would sing a song about..
"If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all"
(Anyone else here old enough to remember that TV moment?)
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:06 AM   #64
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It has been a while since I posted an update, here is the latest segment of the rough draft of my article:
Quote:
May 3: No I have not given up, but damn close. This project has gone from bad to worse, here is what has happened in the last week;
The new injector pod came in, I installed it and was ready to turn the key and have it fire right up, well that was wishful thinking. I did get some sputtering, and I knew the timing was going to need adjusting, but no matter what I did, it would not idle. Playing with the throttle, I could get some rpms out of it but it was still running rich. If I pulled the injector connectors off, I could get it to run on residual fuel in the manifold.
Assuming that I had a vacuum leak or some other problem with the throttle body I took it off and examined it closer. Remember that I was suppose to get the 2" throttle body with this kit but I settled for the bored out 350 version. Well the adapter plate and gasket that I got was the 2" size and looking at the mating of the plate & gasket to the body, it did not look proper.

As you can see in the first photo with the gasket on the throttle body, there are exposed vacuum channels that should be covered. The second photo is a photoshoped X-ray overlay of the adapter plate and throttle body and it shows the exposed channel and a few other marginally sealed channels. The Idle Air Control channel can have a leak into the beveled screw holes used to mount the plate to the intake manifold. Also you can see that the amount of sealing surface around the bottom bore is very marginal.
AFI did not seem concerned about this, but I am, so I made my own throttle plate adapter. It was not hard to do, I just used some 1/2" aluminum plate. I traced out the old plate holes onto the new but with a few changes. I moved the throttle body openings 3/10's of an inch forward, this allowed the bottom right manifold screw to clear the throttle body base and not be a problem with the IAC channel. It also allowed me to use normal bolts in place of the counter sunk flat head screws. The trickiest part was getting the bore holes to be aligned. The holes in the 2" plate did not have the same centering as on the smaller bore body, so I had to carefully measure to get a new center punch mark. After that I used a 1 13/16" hole saw to make the bore holes, and they came out a decent match.

The first photo os the original plate, the second is my creation and the third is them both with gaskets. I had to buy a small bore gasket and with a mototool, open it up a bit to match the bore. The little notch in the lower left corner is for the throttle cable bracket I bought. The original Quadrajet bracket would not fit on the adapter plate.
So I reassembled it with expectations of beautiful engine sounds. Well, you know how my luck is going on this project. NO GO again. I may have solved some other problems, but not the one keeping the engine from running properly. My next tact was to use the ALDL connector and hook it into my laptop. AFI suggested I use a vacuum pump to fake out the MAP sensor into thinking I had good manifold vacuum. Doing that I got enough RPM's to attempt to set the timing, but even that was sketchy. Using the timing light, the timing mark was jumping all over the place. No mater what I did, it would note give me a stable position at 6 degrees. Eventually it did settle down enough and I locked it in. I then reattached the set timing connector and continued to take data. I still had to play with the throttle because it would not idle. I sent the data to AFI and they said that one problem may be the Engine Coolant sensor, it was reading -30 degrees (open connection). I pulled the connector off and shorted it, but it still read negative. I pulled the connector off the ECM and put it back on and then it started to read. That makes me very anxious when you get an intermittent contact in a connector, you never know when or if it will get flaky again.
I tried to start it again, but this time it ran worse than ever. I went back and forth with emails to AFI with nothing being resolved.
My time is short for a vacation in a few weeks and besides there being no gear in the motorhome, I still need it to get inspected and a good test run done.
In desperation, I went back to the Quadrajet. I only pulled the throttle body and re plumbed the fuel line for the carb and bypassed the electric fuel pump. I kept the electronic distributor and other sensors hooked up. I turned the key, pumped the gas and it stated right up. It is running rich, that could be due to the crappy condition of the carburetor and/or the timing is not right. So I went to set the timing again, but the timing mark was still jumping all over. Maybe it is my $30 timing light, or something in the ignition system. For another quick test I bought a new timing control module and installed it in the distributor, but that was not a help.
I also noticed another symptom, the RPM's on the tachometer and on the ECM computer data show ridiculous values, I know I was idling below 1000 RPM's but the tach and data showed 3000.
Something is still not right. When it warms up this morning, I am going to put back the original distributor and see what readings I get with that.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:44 AM   #65
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Ok, after reading up on AFI, and their use of the stock computer,,,,,,, I have tried a "solution" that did the same thing, we never did get it to run right.

My conclusion was that the stock CPU's have too much baggage. They expect a lot of stuff to be in place that isn't there, (evaporation systems, etc)

We ended up changing to the fully programmable FAST control and wiring, it works well coupled with stock junkyard hardware, and is an easy instal.

Like I said above, the kit does not control ignition timing, but this hasn't been an issue.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:58 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
Ok, after reading up on AFI, and their use of the stock computer,,,,,,, I have tried a "solution" that did the same thing, we never did get it to run right.

My conclusion was that the stock CPU's have too much baggage. They expect a lot of stuff to be in place that isn't there, (evaporation systems, etc)

We ended up changing to the fully programmable FAST control and wiring, it works well coupled with stock junkyard hardware, and is an easy instal.

Like I said above, the kit does not control ignition timing, but this hasn't been an issue.
For now, I will stick with the project, but if I cant get the full system to work I am putting it on hold to use The motorhome for Memorial weekend and then I will continue the project after that.
Here is my latest addition to the article:
Quote:
UPDATE: I put the old distributor on and the timing was stable and the Tach showed the normal reading of 900 RPM's The exhaust still smells rich, I can tell because when I was playing with the TBI system I had a good backfire blow the seam on one of the mufflers.
So about $1500 later it runs as bad as it did before I started....
To Be Continued.....
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Old 05-03-2014, 12:23 PM   #67
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Latest message from AFI is to swap out the ECM. That will be a project for after I replace the mufflers and tail pipes.
If I was rich, now would be time for the Banks exhaust.
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #68
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Put some long glass packs on that RV, they are cheap, small, and with the exhaust behind you, the noise it will make ain't your problem....

(Loooonngg glass packs aren't that loud, and your 454 will like their straight through design.)
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:54 AM   #69
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Put some long glass packs on that RV, they are cheap, small, and with the exhaust behind you, the noise it will make ain't your problem....

(Loooonngg glass packs aren't that loud, and your 454 will like their straight through design.)
I could not find anything local so I ordered some cheap walkers off of Amazon, they will be here Wednesday.
I still need to find tail pipes to be road legal, I am not sure if there are any pre-bent pipe vendors out there anymore.

I am rethinking the ECM being the problem with this setup.
The tach and ECM RPM's output were showing high readings with the set timing connector on and off.
Looking at a schematic of the ignition control module, it looks like with the set timing connector disconnected, the ECM should not be involved with generating the spark timing and RPM's signal, it looks like it will come strictly from the ignition control module via the pickup coil.
Since I already replaced the ignition control module, and the results were the same, is it possible that the pickup coil is having problems?
AFI also mentioned that the tachometer or other devices on the distributor tach signal could cause problems. I do have my Rostra cruse control on the tach signal. But it seems unlikely that would be the cause of the high RPM reading
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Old 05-04-2014, 11:17 AM   #70
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Are you certain you don't have a vacuum leak around the adapter plate?

I know you said the truck is running rich, but with fuel injection the computer and will "compensate" for a lean condition at the o2 sensor by dumping more fuel.

Initial tune can be problematic with a fuel injection kit especially when it is not known for sure whether you might have a defective component.
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