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Old 03-09-2014, 11:42 AM   #29
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It is back to running without the air pump.
I found a belt that works and two 1/2" caps to plug the exhaust.
My original belt was a 11A1255, the one that fits without the air pump is a 11A1195. If anyone is going to try the air pump removal, your belt sizes are probably different.
I also found that there was a misconnection of the vacuum lines. The line that went to the vacuum pod on the passenger side behind the engine, was intended to go to the original cruise control, The line that was attached to the former cruise control was suppose to go to the air pump. That may be the reason I never got the old cruise control to work. I installed a Rostra unit to replace it. Anyone who wants my original CC can have it for postage costs.

Looking closer I see that my Qjet does not have a standard Throttle Return Control as shown in this thread http://www.airforums.com/forums/f159/airstreams-and-emissions-98212-2.html#post1224950
Mine has the vacuum solenoid but it does not have the vacuum actuator on the carb. Instead the return line from the solenoid goes back into a nipple on the carburetor, a little higher and toward the driver side from the port supplying the vacuum.
It wont matter when the fuel injection parts get here.
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:15 AM   #30
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Yes they did

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Did GM ever offer this engine as fuel injected? Any chance to convert to the GM system from a used engine?

Sorry no hands on info on your question.
Affordable fuel injection makes a copy of it. it sells for less then $2000.

Chevrolet Big Block V-8 (366, 396, 427, 454, 502): Affordable Fuel Injection
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:43 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waipio Rim View Post
...
Is anybody running a smaller carburetor, like a 650 CFM Holley?
I will be running a 600 CFM Edelbrock 1406 with an Edelbrock Performer 2.0 manifold with an RV/towing cam installed. Unforunately I'm not on the road yet

I do know someone that is running this same combination in a 20' Argosy motorhome that towed a 24' trailer and his mileage was in the high single digits.

Brad
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:19 AM   #32
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The TBI kit came in on Friday, despite the weather, I am starting some of the installation this weekend, and I am trying to document as much as possible for anyone else who wants to give it a try.
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:21 AM   #33
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Well I am a little bit concerned about the throttle body that came with the kit, the part number 17091059 is for a 350CI motor and the throttle bore should be 42mm. A 454 should have a 50mm bore and this one measures 46mm, so I believe someone bored out a 42mm body.
Comparing the 46mm is 590CFM and 50mm would be 670CFM and considering the Quadrajet is 800CFM, I am wondering if this body will be able to handle the load?
I sent an email to AFI and I am waiting for a reply. Their packing sheet claims 2" bore.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneG View Post
Well I am a little bit concerned about the throttle body that came with the kit, the part number 17091059 is for a 350CI motor and the throttle bore should be 42mm. A 454 should have a 50mm bore and this one measures 46mm, so I believe someone bored out a 42mm body.
Comparing the 46mm is 590CFM and 50mm would be 670CFM and considering the Quadrajet is 800CFM, I am wondering if this body will be able to handle the load?
I sent an email to AFI and I am waiting for a reply. Their packing sheet claims 2" bore.
The TB on my EFI conversion is a 2". Good luck and have fun with the installation.
I might add that without the air pump I had a devil of a time getting the alternator belt to stay on. When I rebuild the motor I found that the combo air pump/alternator bracket was way way WAY out of line with the water pump/balancer pulleys. I could not grind it to fit. Ended up going to the short brackets and welded a piece on the adjuster bracket to hold the oil tubes and secondary starter relay.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:58 AM   #35
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The best I can tell without climbing underneath, my alternator belt alignment seems good. I am also using a belt with notches on the OD of the belt not the ID, I hope that will help it survive longer.

My throttle body is definitely under 2" and a related minor setback on this installation, The gasket had a port under the Idle Air Control that would allow a massive vacuum leak through to the screw heads that hold the adapter plate to the manifold.

AFI says it is the wrong gasket and they are sending me the proper one. I still have concerns about the mating of the throttle body to the adapter plate, since the plate and gasket have a 50 mm opening and the throttle body has a 46 mm diameter. Even if the replacement gasket matches the throttle body port size, the gasket will not seal completely against the larger opening in the adapter plate. It will leave some of those vacuum channels exposed to full intake vacuum. I am not convinced that is the proper way it should go together, it looks like some of those channels need to be isolated.
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Old 04-05-2014, 01:03 PM   #36
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I am on hold again. AFI sent me an email letting me know they found a true 2" throttle body, and it should be on the way here now. That adds a bit of peace of mind that this setup will be as intended.
While on hold, I decided to side track again and pull the radiator, because when I ran a fiber optic bore scope into one of the hose openings, I found white growth around the tubes.

It is in the shop for an attempted cleaning.
Since I had access I also pulled the water pump because there was a little seepage from the weep hole below the shaft. I think this pump may have been a standard water pump, not one for a motorhome, so I ordered a Stewart high flow pump.
All of that has little to do with the TBI project, but it does allow me to get some better pictures of the installation. It also gives me easy access to the mechanical fuel pump and a possible location for the electric fuel pump.
So I pressure washed the front of the engine to see what was behind the grime. It is amazing the junk you find in strange places when you dig this deep. I found a huge nut that may have gone to the suspension or steering linkage. Also a 5/16s bolt from who knows where, and a few pieces of fan belt and huge gobs of grease from over zealous chassis grease monkeys.
I cant do much else until the 2" TBI unit gets here.
That is all for today.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:07 PM   #37
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Great thread!


Derek(CrazyVw), and I have been talking about this very subject for weeks via text, and we agreed to start a thread about it here... and you already did!

A few thoughts and comments...
It seems that the 6mpg to 8mpg is the spread that is expected solo, with a mixed variety of driving. My own diary from my maiden 1500 mile trip goes from 6.22, to 8.49. My rig was not in any way optimized... with a rebuilt 454, Edelbrock aftermarket carb, but pancake air filter. Banks exhaust, and numerous vacuum leaks!

As a reference point, I also own a 1987 TBI injected 454 Suburban 2500, with a TH400 trans.
It gets between 8 and 10mpg, and a few times, into double figures. I recall 14mpg on a long trip once.
Considering the weight and frontal area differences, I think the Motorhome numbers are impressive!
Understanding that sometimes the reasons for swapping in an injection setup are more than mpg related, is a given.

For those of you that live in California... your choices are fewer.
1/ You can run the OEM carb setup, and smog equipment and like it.
2/ Swap in a later GM TBI setup complete. This means a trip to the Smog referee, to prove that you have every single item that was on the later engine installed and functional. This is not an easy job... and things like vapor lines from tank to charcoal canister become a nightmare.
3/ Put in a Diesel, from before 2004(IIRC), and no smog needed.

I crunched some numbers, and math is not my strongest suit, so please correct me if I am wrong...

Lets assume a few basics...
Gas is $4/gallon
Gas tank holds 80 gallons.
Therefore, filling the tank is $320.

A tank of gas at 6mpg will take you 480 miles.
A tank of gas at 7mpg will take you 560 miles.
A tank of gas at 8mpg will take you 640 miles.

Therefore, every 1mpg increase takes you 80 miles further.
Lets take the figure of 8mpg, over 6mpg, you went 160 miles further, on the same tank.
That is 20 gallons or $80.

I have looked at GM and aftermarket FI setups, and most are between $1000, and $2000. The reality is that unless you do the work yourself, its gonna be lots more!

If you could gain 2mpg...
A $1000 injection setup would it pay for itself in just over 6 tanks of gas, or 3800 miles.
A $2000 Injection setup would pay for itself in about 12.5 tanks of gas or 8,000 miles.

It begins to make sense the more miles you intend to travel.

Now, I have a 1990 454 motor in my storage, complete with everything. Intake, Throttle body, sensors, harness and computer. The motor also has the complete serpentine belt setup, that looks SO attractive... but I have other priorities... but if I have any issues passing Smog here... that is my path!

In the meantime Wayne, I have my Suburban on my drive... and am off out to measure my throttle bodies for ya...

FYI, the GM TBI intake is notorious for poor fuel distribution... consider swapping in the Edelbrock 37641 intake, which I heard is better.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:45 PM   #38
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As a retired fuel and electrical tech for gm ,honda etc,the best thing to happen automotive is fuel injection,I have rebuilt so many quadrajets carbs at least 2 a day for years ,they are so simple I think it's the easiest carb to rebuild ,but if you can get fuel injection installed you should see a improvement on how it runs ,fuel economy should go up slightly and less emissions.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:19 PM   #39
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I agree Scamp... In theory they are an easy carb to rebuild. I am told, when they are done right and set up correctly, they take some beating on performance and mpg.
.
After a little investigation, and searching, I found my "smog correct" quadrajet...
Before and after mounted on my planned Edelbrock intake.




Wayne, I confirm, my '87, and my '90 Throttle bodies both have 2" bores, so you should be good.


Interestingly, in my research on TBI setups, I found that there are aftermarket harnesses and ECU's that can control a 4 speed 4L80E transmission too....
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:34 PM   #40
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Hey Keyair,
I'm so glad to see you in this thread. If anybody has not checked out Keyair's thread, what is it? Newbie needs help? (!) (see his profile) they should make sure to do it! A tremendously thorough, thoughtful, and clearly expressed voyage through his restoration of a Classic Moho complete with many many pics. An inspiration to me.

Anyway, I and my husband have been back and forth about repowering our classic MH, as we live in CA. I was considering the fuel injection, but you say going with diesel would eliminate the smog complications? The carb needs to be rebuilt, and, from what I'm told, the fuel system needs to be updated for ethanol. So is it worth doing all that and hoping to smog in CA? Which we didn't the first time? The MH is in storage and breaking my heart.

If we go to the diesel option, how much would that cost us (paying someone else) as against fuel injection or upgrading the carb and fuel system? I'm talking rough estimates, obviously, since you're so competent, you'd probably do it all yourself!

If there's a good thread you know of on converting to diesel, please point me to it. I don't want to take this one off-track.
Thanks!
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:57 AM   #41
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I was considering using an aftermarket manifold, but I am trying to minimize complications and keep my costs down.
I have not added up all the parts costs yet, but I guess I am into it for about $1500. Hours wise, if I was paying a shop, that number would more than double.

I was hoping the 2" throttle body would be here now, but I just got an email that they hope to mail it by Friday.
I am taking my time and documenting everything I can for the final writeup.
I am also drawing up a electrical schematic of this setup, and at the same time trying to trace out the engine wiring, it has splices everywhere.

A friend of mine tried to talk me into diesel, but even if I had an engine for free, I would not do it. There is so much to be changed out, it would still cost a fortune. Especially if you have a gas generator. All I have now is the Glow Plug lamp on the dash, and I am going to use it for the check engine light for the TBI system.

For next weekend, I will mount the electric fuel pump on the frame just in front of the mechanical fuel pump and work on the water pump & radiator re-installation.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:06 AM   #42
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Thanks, WayneG, I keep forgetting about the generator. If I didn't live in CA, I wouldn't consider it. Sounds like what you're doing makes sense for you and I admire the way you're going about it.
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