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Old 11-09-2012, 04:56 PM   #57
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...Well know next week what size bore it'll be. Just eyeballing it, I think .030 well be fine. That would give me 489ci. ...
I'm confused. What size engine are you starting with? By my calculations to get 489 from a 454 would require an overbore of 0.160.

A 0.030 overbore yields about 6.43 CID increase.

On edit. OK, never mind. 489 would be with a 4.250 stroke vs the stock 4.000.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:10 PM   #58
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Didn't find a match for the intake (2160). Maybe the 2161 replaced it. Think I'll go with the Edelbrock 2161 and if the air cleaner housing don't fit, I'll go with a plenum to a cone filter behind the grill.
My mistake, I am using a 2161 w/o EGR. That's what happens when I quote numbers from memory

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Oh yeah, check on a aluminum radiator..... About $900 and they need the old radiator to build it by. May just be happy with an aluminum intake and water pump, I can afford them and they need to be replaced. I still might though.
Ouch, $900 is a bit steep. I got lucky on my radiator. I took it into a shop to have the core replaced and they called me and said the core had just recently been replaced, looked good as new inside. I didn't complain about that one!

Brad
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:47 AM   #59
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I'm confused. What size engine are you starting with? By my calculations to get 489 from a 454 would require an overbore of 0.160.

A 0.030 overbore yields about 6.43 CID increase.

On edit. OK, never mind. 489 would be with a 4.250 stroke vs the stock 4.000.
I was sharpening my pencil and checking my numbers. The extra 1/4" of stroke does make the difference. Thanks for keeping me on my toes. I'll need all the brain power I can muster to get all this back in one piece.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:08 AM   #60
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Ouch, $900 is a bit steep. I got lucky on my radiator. I took it into a shop to have the core replaced and they called me and said the core had just recently been replaced, looked good as new inside. I didn't complain about that one!

Brad
I did have this radiator off and rod'd about 15000 miles back when I replaced all the hoses and belts last. I just need to get it power washed to get all the bugs and dirt I can't get out of the fins with my mickey mice power washer. This one radiator exchange place said that if I can come up with the gm part number he can match it to an aluminum radiator. Think I'll take mine in for him to look at. It that don't work???? Ship it to NC w/$900???? Maybe???
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:14 AM   #61
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Why are you sold on an aluminum radiator?

Perry
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:08 AM   #62
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I was sharpening my pencil and checking my numbers. The extra 1/4" of stroke does make the difference. Thanks for keeping me on my toes. I'll need all the brain power I can muster to get all this back in one piece.
Speaking of sharpening pencils, here's the one I used. It's a quick and dirty Excel (Old format required, what's with that Mods?) spreadsheet.

Not sure what a stroker crank costs. The 4" stroke cranks were the longest what were commonly (read that "inexpensively") available. I would closely consider the cost/benefit compared to other things you could do with the money. Especially if the crank in your engine is in good shape.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:24 AM   #63
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Thumbs down Aluminum radiators

Beware!..$$..The massive popularity of aluminum radiators has more to do with late model vehicles having aluminum blocks and heads that use special antifreeze/coolant. Plus, ultra light weight stuff for the drag strip guys..$$.

We have cast iron blocks and heads. In a vehicle that sits more than it's driven you might set yourself up for an electrolytic corrosion problem in that new aluminum radiator.
My personal feeling , keep the stock brass radiator, have it recored if necessary, ALWAYS go for a four core when possible.

There have to be competent radiator shops much closer to you . And, $900 sounds like about $300 to $400 too much.

Just my two cents.
All the best. Rich.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:56 PM   #64
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One of the problems with older engines is that the water goes through the block and then into the heads. Modern engines have aluminum heads and the water flows through the heads first and then into the block. It seems like stuff from the 60 and 70's would always overheat when you pushed it at all. You are limited by how much heat you can get to the radiator. Both aluminum and brass conduct heat well. Brass is more expensive and heavy and that is probably why they stopped using brass. New car radiators are crap. They have aluminum core radiators with plastic tanks and the tanks will crack and leak. If you spring a leak in a brass radiator you can solder it and the tanks are reusable even if the core has to be replaced. Aluminum seems to work amazingly well and it is probably because coolants have gotten a lot better about retarding corrosion.

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Old 11-11-2012, 07:52 AM   #65
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My reasoning for aluminum over copper/brass:
1- Weight's a lot less.
2- More tube area
3- Need less rows
4- With less row, better air flow
5- Better heat exchange because of 2, 3, 4.
6- With better air flow thru radiator, A/C and transmission cooler also work better.
This $900 is not a plastic tanked radiator, it is all aluminum. I'll see how my money flow is before I'll spring for the $$$$
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:57 AM   #66
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One of the problems with older engines is that the water goes through the block and then into the heads. Modern engines have aluminum heads and the water flows through the heads first and then into the block. It seems like stuff from the 60 and 70's would always overheat when you pushed it at all. You are limited by how much heat you can get to the radiator. Both aluminum and brass conduct heat well. Brass is more expensive and heavy and that is probably why they stopped using brass. New car radiators are crap. They have aluminum core radiators with plastic tanks and the tanks will crack and leak. If you spring a leak in a brass radiator you can solder it and the tanks are reusable even if the core has to be replaced. Aluminum seems to work amazingly well and it is probably because coolants have gotten a lot better about retarding corrosion.

Perry
You said it all. Aluminum and plastic is cheaper than copper. Sal
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:19 AM   #67
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I would think you could make an off the shelf radiator from Summit work and just make brackets to make it fit.

Perry
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:57 PM   #68
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Mel...
Looking GREAT!
Got some input...

When you have time can you throw a tape measure on you radiator for me/us?
I can't get a good reading on mine in situ..
Looks like 36 x 20..
Would love to know the overall sizes and the core sizes.
Would also love to get same measurement on your AC condensor.

I am pretty sure i will go Aluminum...
Doing away with the in radiator trans and engine oil coolers..
Looking for all welded construction with aluminum end tanks so if I want I can get that forward facing filler neck welded in.
This one is a 34 x 19 and looks like it fits the bill, but probably made "elsewhere" and is way cheap...
But it does state that it out-cools a 4 row, and can handle 500/600 hp..
19 x 34 in Aluminum Radiator Chevy GM Inlet Outlet Crossflow Truck or Car | eBay

My 87 454 Suburban has/had an aluminum/brass radiator, and no issue beside when the waterpump bearing let go, allowing the fan assembly to wobble, bent the VC and the fan did this was the carnage..




The replacement was a 4 row aluminum/plastic Spectra premium HD unit that cost $160 form RockAuto..
This radiator cools the same motor and in the 3/4t chassis is rated to tow 10k lbs in addition to its 6k curb weight...
Dimesions say 28 x 19.

Note, the mid 80's 454 powered suburban's with tow package and rear AC have a 7 blade fan... I read that it moves more air than the normal 5 blade.

I am planning on using Royal Purple ICE wetter/corrosion inhibitor in the system too.
Automotive - Royal Purple
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:36 PM   #69
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On the subject of the intake...

I have a 2160 Edelbrock Performer with the EGR.. even tho my 84 did not have EGR, even the stock cast iron intake has provision for it... just a blanking plate on the hole, which is what I planned to do.



I am concerned about it being too tall as well..
The carb mounting looks a lot thicker/taller that the stock one..




Here is a good view of the overall heights so you might be able to compare..
Underside of Valley mounting flange to top of Banks filter is about 14 1/2"


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Old 11-11-2012, 02:25 PM   #70
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I do have those measurements around here somewhere....
Overall-33wX21hX 3 1/4t
core-28 1/2wX20 1/2hX2 1/4t
tanks- 3 1/2wX3 1/4tX21h
all inlets- 1 1/4"
heater inlet- 3/4"
The problem with the ready made radiators: the fill is on top <modification>, no heater hose inlet<modification>, inlets wrong size<modification>, no sender (what's it for?) boss<modification>. By the time it was modified to work for my application, be cheaper to pay the $900. Of course here it is getting into the Holiday season. This is about the same time of year I started trying to get a custom shift lever for my 4L80E project last year, think it took my till the end of January to get it built.
I only use one oil cooling plate in the tank for the engine oil after it goes to the cooler mounted under the bumper. Would want to keep that setup for cold weather (if I ever go caught in it) driving. My transmission oil goes thru a cooler in the curbside wheel well (behind the headlight) them to the large cooler on the front of the A/C condenser.

Your radiator looks just like one I've got in my scrap pile from a ford N8 tractor.

This is what your fan should look like. Thinking I'll change the fan clutch while I'm at it.
mel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyair View Post
Mel...
Looking GREAT!
Got some input...

When you have time can you throw a tape measure on you radiator for me/us?
I can't get a good reading on mine in situ..
Looks like 36 x 20..
Would love to know the overall sizes and the core sizes.
Would also love to get same measurement on your AC condensor.

I am pretty sure i will go Aluminum...
Doing away with the in radiator trans and engine oil coolers..
Looking for all welded construction with aluminum end tanks so if I want I can get that forward facing filler neck welded in.
This one is a 34 x 19 and looks like it fits the bill, but probably made "elsewhere" and is way cheap...
But it does state that it out-cools a 4 row, and can handle 500/600 hp..
19 x 34 in Aluminum Radiator Chevy GM Inlet Outlet Crossflow Truck or Car | eBay

My 87 454 Suburban has/had an aluminum/brass radiator, and no issue beside when the waterpump bearing let go, allowing the fan assembly to wobble, bent the VC and the fan did this was the carnage..




The replacement was a 4 row aluminum/plastic Spectra premium HD unit that cost $160 form RockAuto..
This radiator cools the same motor and in the 3/4t chassis is rated to tow 10k lbs in addition to its 6k curb weight...
Dimesions say 28 x 19.

Note, the mid 80's 454 powered suburban's with tow package and rear AC have a 7 blade fan... I read that it moves more air than the normal 5 blade.

I am planning on using Royal Purple ICE wetter/corrosion inhibitor in the system too.
Automotive - Royal Purple
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