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Old 03-09-2013, 07:48 PM   #169
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Mel,

PSI,that's great. Oreilly paying, real nice, you must have made a clear case. Cam timing, me thinks that's kinda important. If you were off on cam timing, compression test might be an external check. Someone will advise or correct us. I don't know basic cam to crank timing chain setup, I'd have to research.

Sorry to hear about this back issues, ouch.

Hang in there.

Gary
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #170
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Mel,

It may be silly of me to throw this one out because it definitely sounds like you know what your doing when it comes to engines. Did you time the engine from the top timing mark or the bottom timing mark? Typically for a MH you can't see the normal upper timing marker on the timing case so GM installs one on the bottom side. When using a timing light on the bottom marker, you need to connect the timing light to plug number 5 or else your timing will be way off. I've done my share of engine work in the past and I've never heard of this bottom timing marker until I read it here on Airforums! I've successfully timed my 454 many times since. So again, just checking to see if you caught this one.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:08 PM   #171
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'dadstoy' I filed another mark to be able to use the bottom timing bracket and stay TDC on #1. Just habit for a time far, far away.
Ripped the front out. Think I'm getting good at catching the antifreeze. Only have to take the alternator/bracket off to get the pump off. Lost one of the bolts for the harmonic balancer puller, so good reason for a bicycle bike to the hardware store to get another one. Got the puller on the balancer and it came off by hand. Look in and saw I had the sprocket key hole right. So off with the timing cover and DAMN! How did I do that?
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You see the two black marks? That's the line up marks. See how they line up so nice? Only one little problem: The mark on the little sprocket is right where it's suppose to be and the mark on the big sprocket???? THE BIG ONE AND THE LITTLE ONE SHOULD POINT AT EACH OTHER!!!! The dang big sprocket is only 180 degrees off. That makes the valve timing 90 degrees off? That's wild!
Next time I'll let my, almost, 3 year old grandson show me how it done. Time to fix and try again.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:19 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by choctawmel View Post
'dadstoy' I filed another mark to be able to use the bottom timing bracket and stay TDC on #1. Just habit for a time far, far away.
Ripped the front out. Think I'm getting good at catching the antifreeze. Only have to take the alternator/bracket off to get the pump off. Lost one of the bolts for the harmonic balancer puller, so good reason for a bicycle bike to the hardware store to get another one. Got the puller on the balancer and it came off by hand. Look in and saw I had the sprocket key hole right. So off with the timing cover and DAMN! How did I do that?
Attachment 180955
You see the two black marks? That's the line up marks. See how they line up so nice? Only one little problem: The mark on the little sprocket is right where it's suppose to be and the mark on the big sprocket???? THE BIG ONE AND THE LITTLE ONE SHOULD POINT AT EACH OTHER!!!! The dang big sprocket is only 180 degrees off. That makes the valve timing 90 degrees off? That's wild!
Next time I'll let my, almost, 3 year old grandson show me how it done. Time to fix and try again.
If you turn the crank one revolution won't the marks line up? Just wondering.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:18 PM   #173
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Mel

Did you hear that big oh crap sigh I just did, man that hurts. The only good news is that you found something.

Man that hurts, bad real bad.

Com'on Mel you can do it, get 'er done!

Gary
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:53 PM   #174
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Mel, I know you know already, but I went thru this myself...
My issue upon rebuilding my 454 was I had the valve clearances set too tight...

Here was a pic I took when I went thru the same checking process..
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:13 PM   #175
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Cam Timing

The last 454 I did I advance the cam timing 7.5 degrees. This moves the torque curve down to 3500 rpm. Above 3500 engine will seem to go flat it will continue to climb but not as strong. If you really want to make it pull put a set of 396 - 375 hp heads on.
Steve
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:09 AM   #176
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Are you sure that you have the engine set at #1 TDC of the compression stroke? That's the only time the timing marks will align Just double checking before you go through the trouble of doing it again. Can't recall if the 454 is an interference engine. Hope no valves got bent if the timing was off.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:57 PM   #177
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Steve, Comp-cam advices using the 'stock' 'O' lineup.
I was sure I had the crank key in the wrong (4 degrees advice, 4 Degrees retarded) on the cam sprocket. But I didn't. And last night as I was trying to go to sleep it finally dawned on me that if it's opposite ODT the cam would be 180 out with the distributor point to #1. The cam turns 1/2 turn to the crank's one turn. Should of pulled the distributor and turned it 180. I've never had an engine start with the distributor 180 out. Time to go put the water pump back on.
Like I've said before, my brain don't work (and other things) will while on pain meds and I do restrain from any adult beverage till I'm gathering my tools.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:14 PM   #178
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I can confirm that the 454 is an Interference engine...
This is the result of the cam sprocket going bad...
The bend pushrods are the intake side, and I also had a few bent intake valves.


I hope that all is well Mel... fingers crossed for ya buddy!
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:26 PM   #179
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If I were you, I would double check my valve timing again before trying to start her. A no start compression check may also be in order to verify cam timing and possible previous damage.

Remember that, in order to have correct valve timing, you must set the crank and cam gears when the #1 cylinder is at TDC of the compression stroke. Not the exhaust stroke. This can be verified by looking at the rocker arms. Both valves should be closed as the cylinder approaches TDC.

I've dealt with enough interference engines to know it doesn't take much to cause some serious damage. Hate to have you pull that puppy again.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:00 AM   #180
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Any more updates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by choctawmel View Post
I have started my winter project.
Objective: Pull the 454 cid engine and rebuild it into a 496cid with hydraulic roller cam. While I'm in the area: new 140 amp 1 wire alternator, new A/C compressor, hydraulic pump, high volume oil and water pump, new hoses, and many more to be discovered.
Attachment 171248
First a picture as it was
Attachment 171249
down to the cooler draining
Attachment 171250
looks like I need to add more parts to my parts list
Attachment 171252
what a mess!
Got to stop at this point to recover from eye surgery for 2 weeks.

Any more updates? on your motor swap? I'm trying to have one done great article Terry
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:12 AM   #181
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Steve, Comp-cam advices using the 'stock' 'O' lineup.
I was sure I had the crank key in the wrong (4 degrees advice, 4 Degrees retarded) on the cam sprocket. But I didn't. And last night as I was trying to go to sleep it finally dawned on me that if it's opposite ODT the cam would be 180 out with the distributor point to #1. The cam turns 1/2 turn to the crank's one turn. Should of pulled the distributor and turned it 180. I've never had an engine start with the distributor 180 out. Time to go put the water pump back on.
Like I've said before, my brain don't work (and other things) will while on pain meds and I do restrain from any adult beverage till I'm gathering my tools.
You would be surprised at the number of mechanics I have seen get this wrong...some more than once .
Sounds like you are on the right track now though.
Bruce
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:32 PM   #182
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Great thread, so much useful info even if you don't plan to yank the motor and rebuild. Hope you are feeling better Mel and you MH is ready to roll.
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