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Old 03-25-2004, 07:07 AM   #15
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A shot of the studs

See how they are not perpendicular to the manifold portal?
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:10 AM   #16
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Clean shot of mating

I got the old parts out nut the exhaust pipe does not want to move too much. I had to force the new gasket between the studs because I did not want to risk ruining the threads on the studs while re-fitting the pipe to the manifold.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:11 AM   #17
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gasket in

Here is the new gasket inplace. I may have to pull it back out to get the steel piece back in, if needed.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:18 AM   #18
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It would on my Suburban

Yes, on my Suburban's 454, the metal piece was part of the whole assembly.

But what really concerns me is your pictures look just like my setup EXCEPT on mine, there are conical shaped springs, a couple of inches long, under the nuts to allow the joint to float.

I suspect your setup had them at one time or else why would the studs be so long? Also, my nuts (on the Burb) are not that long.

If you did not get many miles out of your last donut, you may want to investigate adding the springs.

Just a thought,
Tom
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Old 03-25-2004, 08:37 AM   #19
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Whole assembly?

When you say whole assembly what exactly do you mean?

Initially, I was under the impression that the steel ring, depicted on the right side of the side by side photo, was an infrstructure to the piece on the left.

I guess what I am trying to say, I thought that the steel ring was covered in lead and aluminum to form what is on the left side of the picture. The steel ring is what is residual of the deteriorated gasket. (Clear as mud?)

A different language perhaps, do both pieces go into the intersection? Does the steel ring on the right side of the photo need to go back into the intersection along with the new gasket on the left?

Or does the new lead gasket go in without the steel ring on the right?

Smily
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Old 03-25-2004, 10:13 AM   #20
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Re: Whole assembly?

Quote:
Originally posted by smily
When you say whole assembly what exactly do you mean?

Initially, I was under the impression that the steel ring, depicted on the right side of the side by side photo, was an infrstructure to the piece on the left.
I am having trouble remembering exact details, so bear with me.

Upon my disassembly, I had some asbestos-donut-looking-thing, and a steel ring that went together to make one assembly. What I cannot clearly remember is if the new donut I bought came with a new steel ring integral to its construction, or I reused my existing steel ring with the new shiny sealing component.

From your posts, I was under the impression your new part did not come with a steel ring as part of its component list. In that case you would obviously need to reuse the steel ring.

Measure IDs and ODs of your old and new parts. Hopefully you will find conclusive proof of what to do with the steel ring.

Good luck,
Tom
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Old 03-25-2004, 11:57 AM   #21
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new info

Okay, after visiting four parts houses on my lunch break I have learned this. As you have pointed out, the original configuration was a two piece assembly, a steel ring and an asbestos donut.

Some of the old gaskets still come this way but, most come as a unit now. As the one I have purchased is a composite unit.

If you look at the photo above you will see that the new gasket has a "lip" or a flange built into the unit. This is the "reducer" or insert of the gasket. It takes the place of the steel reducer ring.

So I will re-assemble with out the original steel ring. The key is to determine how the new gasket fits. Does it actually counter sink into the manifold flange? The new gasket does exactly that.

Now of springs, not all exhaust flanges are equipped with springs. I am told by four out of four part houses, that if they were not there to begin with, they probably were never there.
Of course this is a "I cant see it so I am guessing" analysis.

I could probably add the springs if I like but the only ones available come as a kit with a replacement stud, nut, washer and the coveted spring, cost, 4.99 a set. I need six. Hmmmm, go with concensus, no springs.
Also, as I looked at all of the different replacement studs that were in the spring kits and other kits, they are all approximately two inches long if not more. So I believe my studs are a common size whether spring is needed or not.

I did spend the thirty dollars on a good thread chaser set to clean up the bunged up threads on the old studs, so I dont snap one trying to force the nuts on.

Ahh, there went my budget of 33 dollars, I am now up to 63 dollars, but I did pick up two tools out of the deal that I will surely need one day.

Smily
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Old 03-26-2004, 09:04 AM   #22
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Complete and quiet

finished job last night.
Installed new gasket without steel ring.

The passenger side was still intact enogh to see that the original steel ring was a part of the whole assembly, as in a two piece assembly.

The engine is nice and quiet now

Smily
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Old 03-26-2004, 11:12 AM   #23
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Re: It would on my Suburban

Quote:
Originally posted by tcwilliams
Yes, on my Suburban's 454, the metal piece was part of the whole assembly.

But what really concerns me is your pictures look just like my setup EXCEPT on mine, there are conical shaped springs, a couple of inches long, under the nuts to allow the joint to float.

I suspect your setup had them at one time or else why would the studs be so long? Also, my nuts (on the Burb) are not that long.

If you did not get many miles out of your last donut, you may want to investigate adding the springs.

Just a thought,
Tom
My Suburban is the same as Toms. The metal ring is a fire ring that protects the gasket. There is a lip that is even visiable in your pictures that it seats in. My new gaskets came with new rings. I bought mine from the Chevy Dealer. I also have the springs to alow for some movement that Toms mentions.
My bet is the springs were lost and sombody just ran the bolts up. Running the bolts up causse the flange to warp and bend the studs. I just replace the gaskets on one side of my engine and everything was lined up.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:27 PM   #24
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Donuts, to eat or not

It has been my experance,
that if the metal sleaves are not used, the "donuts" will crush as time goes on, as there is nothing to prevent it .
The metal insert prevents them from being squeezed to a smaller diameter. becoming loose and eventially falling into the pipe or braking.
The sleaves also align the donut to the manifold G.M. would not spend the few cents if it was not needed. Please don't ask me how I know this , a Crossover pipe is a terrible thing to do over on some motors. once "burnt" twice shyed.
Ol' George
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