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Old 12-02-2017, 04:53 PM   #1
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Oil for our older engines

For the longest time, my son, who is a techy gear head, has been saying that his research said to use only "Diesel Oil" in his 1988 Mercedes 300TE, his baby.
He told me that it is said that modern oils have been reformulated to suit emissions standards with a reduction in Zinc and other anti-wear additives. It seems that some of these additives damage catalytic converters over time.
Many modern engines have roller cam followers, instead of flat tappets, and better seals etc.

Our 454's, and I assume the Isuzu engine, have flat tappet cam followers, and therefore NEED the anti-scuff, and other ant-wear additives that are now missing from modern formulations.

In short, the following link is pretty deep, but worth reading.
It confirms that our older engines NEED diesel oil, with its additive package.
Shell Rotella T6 synthetic came out top, but it is a pretty convincing, and well written article that confirms that we all should be putting Diesel Oil in our rigs!

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/rot...essing-188168/
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:02 PM   #2
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Steve

You are right as modern 5W, 0W and even 10W oils are formulated for new low friction, low tolerance engines, which your old 454 is definitely not of that breed of motor.

There is a problem with going to a T6 synthetic oil with these old motors, and that is leaks. These old motors do well with T4 15W-40 or the old SAE 30, as it picks up debris, suspends it until it goes through filtration and won't find its way out of 30+ years old seals and gaskets that are trying to seal tolorances that are way bigger than new production methods will be.

Cheers
Tony
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:21 PM   #3
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Agreed, however, if I were setting up to do a 5,000 mile trip, I would probably stick Synthetic in and have a little leakage than be bothered about doing a change at 3000 miles
I use Rotella T conventional, or Delo, or Delvac... whatever is the cheapest at the Walmart across the street. I want to say that last time I paid $12 a gallon. I recently got a 2.5 gallon/9L container of Delvac 15-40, and it was like under $30. Thats enough for me to do 2 vehicles!
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:19 PM   #4
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Mobil 1 10W/30 full synthetic good to go in both the 454 and 460. Regards, Bob. PS have been using Mobil Delvac 1300 15W/40 in the Detroit (Snap-On) truck for 28 years. That's how long my engine lasted before it blew....no regrets.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:41 PM   #5
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I use conventional Shell Rotella in my 1987 gasoline MB and 460
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:04 AM   #6
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Switched my Dads 1987-spec TBI V8-454 to Mobil Synthetic 10W-50 back in 1997. Had about 150k on it. As with other vehicles where Ive switched over since 1982, leaks are something one repairs.

Oil consumption on his was reduced. The rate was different whether towing or solo, but he was pleased at the results (didnt hurt that I also installed a Cloyes TruRoller timing chain set and indexed the cam). He ran it another 40k, and still saw the Burb around with new owner years after.

Id also use Rotella T6 5W-40 today.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:17 PM   #7
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Oil

I use rotella in my diesels and Castrol in everything else.
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:29 PM   #8
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Graphite in oil

These heavy veihcles with their Flat followers, are heavy on the bottom journells, also dry starts after long periods off nonuse.
So what I have allways fed to my Chev engine's (60y) has been a small pot off dry Grafite powder mixed into the which ever oil.
It is the only lubricant that I know about that still lubricates at 1 atom thick.

Rus
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Old 12-03-2017, 01:30 PM   #9
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My reason for posting this is to point out that Diesel oils still have the anti-scuff and anti-friction additives that our engines were originally designed for.
These have been removed from most modern gas engine oils.

Flat tappet engines need these for long life.
This is akin to what happened to engines when lead was removed from fuel, and the rapid wear in valves and seats that was seen following that.

That is critical on our 454 motors, that are at the upper end of their load range.
I would prefer those friction reducing additives at work when grinding up a long hill dragging 16,500lb plus!
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltair View Post
These heavy veihcles with their Flat followers, are heavy on the bottom journells, also dry starts after long periods off nonuse.
So what I have allways fed to my Chev engine's (60y) has been a small pot off dry Grafite powder mixed into the which ever oil.
It is the only lubricant that I know about that still lubricates at 1 atom thick.

Rus
I agree Rus!
A 345 in NZ!
Too cool... you need to post some pics!!!!!
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Old 12-03-2017, 03:58 PM   #11
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My 454 has about 60K miles on it and I was considering a synthetic for my spring oil change. Maybe Mobil 1 10-30?
This Rotella T6 looks interesting but I am a bit concerned about the 5W40 viscosity rating?
I also plan on using Blackstone to analyze the old oil that has been in there for 2 seasons and only 1K miles on it. (I ran it for 2 seasons because Blackstone claims that testing oil with low miles is almost pointless because there are only small traces to work with)
What are your thoughts on the Rotella T6 5W40 in the 454?
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:06 PM   #12
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All my flatheads run plain old Valvoline. Never had any issues with flat tappets etc.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:27 PM   #13
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Wayne, If you look at the chart in that thread, it states that 5W is good down to -20 deg F. I think it would be fine.
I know its a different beast, but I am running Mobil 1 15W40 in my GF's ML320 Bluetec Diesel, for the opposite reason... the heat here in CA, compounds the incredible internal temperatures that the Bluetec motors run, actually evaporates the oil and causes sludge to form! We NEED the viscosity to keep the engine safe, and I change at 3-4000 miles rather than the service indicator which says 9000!

I quote this from a site where they discuss Bluetec oil requirements... anyone here running a Sprinter should be aware....

BlueTec diesel’s run exhaust temperatures of 1400F. If you drive in the mountains or haul a lot of weight, the exhaust temperature can reach 1800F. This heat is transferred straight into the engine oil. Oil is like water, in that when it gets hot, it boils off steam / vapor. This vapor is called “Noack Volatility”. This & the “Viscosity Index” (VI), are the most important things know about a oil.

http://www.stephensservice.com/bluet...ssuesproblems/
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:47 PM   #14
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Speaking of engine temps, I sometimes run a laptop with Thermocouples running to various places among with the ALDL data from the TBI computer. This is a short run I did in 2016 and the exhaust temp is measured at the exhaust diverter valve got over 1000 deg F.
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