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Old 01-27-2015, 06:29 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by choctawmel View Post
I lost 4mpg in my Dodge Cummins when the ULSD came out
I owned a 97 VW Jetta TDI when the ULSD came out. Highway mileage went from 48 to 45 mpg.........
I used Stanadyne which helped with the smoke and maybe 1 mpg and the engine ran much quieter.

I now use Stanadyne in my 09 Dodge and the injectors are much quieter, especially with a cold engine. It did nothing for the mileage.

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Old 01-27-2015, 07:39 AM   #30
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That stanadyne additive was designed to lubricate the old style injector fuel pumps,which is no longer used on the newer engines and that got rid of a lot of 2099 3406 E model cat has never seen any additives, fuel filters are changed at 40,000 miles and the injectors are original with 1.355 million miles, so that shows you don't need additives , just buy clean fuel, where they sell a lot of it...

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Old 01-27-2015, 12:26 PM   #31
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Don't confuse DEF with fuel additives.

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Old 01-27-2015, 01:00 PM   #32
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Don't confuse DEF with fuel additives.

There have been a lot of developments in engine design and fuels. Lead was removed because of its toxicity and incompatibility with catalytic converters. That "lead" to problems in older engines that didn't have hardened valves and seats. Lead additives and substitutes had to be added.

Suffer and phosphorus were removed from oil because of there detrimental effects on catalytic converters. Older engines, especially those with solid lifters, had issues requiring additives or oiled that still offered the properties required.

Ethanol raises hell in older engines that aren't designed for it. Especially engines that set a lot with the ethanol component of the fuel absorbing water. Boat and small engines hate the stuff. Mostly from corrosion of components in the carburetor and degradation of fuel system components.

So when it comes to ultra low sulfur diesel I can understand how it might cause accelerated wear in older fuel pumps not designed for it. I've seen a lot of theories, claims, and witches brews about adding crap to fuel. I personally wouldn't add anything not recommended by the engine manufacturer. I use anti gelling additives in cold weather, anti microbial additives for long sits, and a lubricating aid.
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Old 01-27-2015, 09:31 PM   #33
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The lead was added to gasoline in about 1937? To raise the octane, Jimmy Doolittle was one of the permoters of this for the airplane engines. I will agree with you about all these hocus locus miracle additives......
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:05 PM   #34
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I have used this in my 2003 Dodge almost since new. I can't prove it is the reason, but I have had none of the injection system problems that some have reported since the introduction of ULSD.

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Old 01-27-2015, 10:09 PM   #35
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Since they 'got the lead out', the moss is returning to Louisiana... check out our Avatar..
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:46 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by 3 Dog Nite View Post
Has anyone had any problems using the newer low sulpher deisel in their older vehicles? I know the tractor trailers have to add DEF (deisel exhaust fuel) additive in the new trucks. I'm thinking of purchasing a 1985 with a GM 6.2L engine. Are there any additives required to use the new fuel in an older vehicles. What problems have been caused by this phenomenom?
1. No, not even in the legacy pump-line-injector and unit injector systems.

2. DEF is an additive that is intended to mitigate certain emissions in accordance with EPA requirements in new-build engines and motor vehicles. It is a liquid that has its own filler, reservoir, and plumbing, the substance being introduced post-combustion cycle.

3. The 6.2/6.5 Detroits were fine engines in their day, representing a benchmark of diesel technology before the advent of electronic controls.

4. Stanadyne, the manufacturer of the DB series rotary pumps found on the above engine, makes an additive that is well-regarded in the diesel service industry.

My own experience mirrors what most-all OE vendors state, which is, "good, clean fuel" works fine on it's own. The first pictures show an older diesel with direct injection and a pump-line-injector setup using a CAV rotary pump (similar to the Stanadyne Roosa). The second is a Mercedes OM-617 with indirect injection and a P-series Bosch pump setup. Both were down for routine repowering and showed no unusual cylinder, injector, or pump wear, having used contemporary road diesel for at least 8 years.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:26 AM   #37
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TEL was added to reduce valve seat wear and to cushion the effects of detonation. It all has to with Volumetric Efficiency which in a non supercharged engine will increase with engine speed. The Static compression ratio will be added to by the net positive effect of increased efficiency of cylinder filling at a given flow rate. Something like that anyways.
Isooctane is used to change the behavior of the fuel as it is burned. If it burns too fast, the flame fronts in the cylinder strike each other and create "Knock". The Octane number of the fuel is its ability to resist detonation in a given situation. Todays engines have knock sensors that will retard ignition to minimize that harmful condition.
Same thing for the use of Cetane in diesel engines. With Compression ratios from 18:1 up into the 22:1+ range, fuel quality will have an effect on performance and longevity. There is a point of diminishing returns with the use of additive Isooctane, and Cetane as well.
When I lived in San Diego, I would occasionally go to the airport and buy 106-116 Octane number AVGAS and mix it 50/50 for my KZ750. Shaaazamm!, It was a little harder to start but it ran like a rocketship.

Most fuel "Octane boosters" are merely varying percentages of methanol. If you want a high performance additive that will not corrode your fuel system (Gas engine), use Toluene. It is pure hydrocarbon, and is what is blended with the fuel at the blender to raise the Octane Number from 87 to 93/94 at the pump. Next time your pumping the good stuff, you will be able to smell it.
As far as additives go I use the Lucas fuel conditioner ( a light mineral oil base) and along with a K&N filter, and RoyalPurple HPS oil, my milage in the Yukon has gone from 15 to 18.2. It goes in the JD tractor too.
When I had my 83 Suburban with the 6.2, (that was a nice rig) I used PowerService
fuel additive. I never had a problem with the Roosamaster DB2 pump, and the injectors were always clean as a whistle. It didn't like the climb from ElCentro Ca over the mountains to San Diego but on the open road I got 18mpg loaded up to 25mpg with a tailwind through New Mexico.
With that said, I believe we are being "Greened" into non existence. The new vehicles are nice but just don't hold up over time. Oil filters are now 1/3 the size for why? Our fuels contain higher levels of solvents that harm the plastics and rubber. Lightweight aluminum is a reactive metal and cant tolerate continuous exposure to the Alcohols that are being used.
The FDA says all the pills are good. The EPA, well, you tell me.
Lucas in the gas and diesel
Power service in the diesel
I am thankful that we can still get fuel at the pump.

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