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Old 10-15-2004, 12:56 PM   #15
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Toaster - ok so you are talking about this (see pic) screw? I did not touch this at all. (btw - thats not my QJet - too bad - it's soooo pretty)
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Old 10-15-2004, 01:53 PM   #16
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Steve,
Ok, lets think simple:
We have established it's running rich,
Is the choke staying on, or comming on after it's warm?
if ok, look into the carb with a bright flashlight while it is running at idle (warm motor).
In the center (near the air cleaner stud) you will see a hole in which you will be able to see a bit of the top of float, does it look like it is flooding?
While looking in the carb (idling) does it look like it is spilling gas into the venturies? it should be relatively dry if things are running right.
Don't be too quick to comdem the "Q" jet, GM built a gazillion of them and probably still would if it not for emission standards.
yes they do eventually wear out, and that is usually displayed as throttle shafts being worn severly in the mating bore .
I wish I had a penny for all the carbs that were replaced that were not worn out, but only needing TLC!
Steve,
Did it run ok initally after you rebuilt it? if so, I would suspect possibly a small critter under needle seat or the seat loosing up.
Usually the leaking passages that we seal with JBweld/epoxy etc. cause the fuel to leak from the bowel over a couple of days and cause long cranking times.
I would not be too quick to condem the ol' carb as being plum worn out.
and as far as vacuum leaks, this USUALLY causes a lean condition, or higher than normal idle RPM.
keep us informed, and we will try to help as always.
ol'George
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Old 10-15-2004, 06:32 PM   #17
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What happened to expertise like this when we now pay $85.00/hr. & the young 'dude' working on your 'pride & joy' says; "You worry too much old man, I (almost) know what I'm doing, things are different today."...Real, & all too recent experience.
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Old 10-15-2004, 08:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swebster
Toaster - ok so you are talking about this (see pic) screw? I did not touch this at all. (btw - thats not my QJet - too bad - it's soooo pretty)
Thats exactly what I am talking about. the allen key is the lock screw and the slot is the tension adjustment.
To soft and they come on too soon and make it run rich as they come in.

Ok, sounds like either the plugs are leaking badly or the float is too high if the choke is coming off completely.

Your's still has the plugs in over the idle screws? WOW I have never seen one that still had the plugs in it. LOL

Sorry about the delay. I changed jobs. I am actually busy durring the day so it is rare I can get here till I am off work.
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Old 10-15-2004, 09:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swebster
Twink,
Yeah...mine is definately very rich on startup. I get the soot marks on the pavement as well. Once it warms up it runs fine; no stumbling or bogging, oo other typical "too much fuel" symptoms....but even after a good long ride the plugs are very sooty and I still get some dark smoke from the exhaust even at idle.
Steven, I have had this problem before, the best solution is to get another carb, I have never had luck with rebuilding them myself. They work okay for a while, and then go South. I had a Toronado that did well after rebuilding for about 3 months, then suddenly started getting 3 MPG! Here in Florida we still have a couple of professional carb rebuild shops, you can try taking yours to one up there if there still is one.
Good luck with it.
Terry
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Old 10-15-2004, 09:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59toaster
Your's still has the plugs in over the idle screws? WOW I have never seen one that still had the plugs in it. LOL
Eric - Are you making fun of my QJet? Please don't she's already very tempermental and I'm trying not to piss her off!

Terry - thanks for the advice but I'm still holding out hope. As you remember I rebuilt this one myself so now it's personal. I pulled the carb today and plan to seal the main body, check the float level, look for anything keeping the jets from seating...you know your basic acts of desperation.

Worst case is that I get to buy something new, cool and shiney from Jegs . She's got to get me to the rally in GA and back and I'd like to do it without burning through 400 gallons of fuel!
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Old 10-15-2004, 10:18 PM   #21
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did you happen to mess with the adjustment under the primary rods?
http://www.carburetion.com/Quads/M4MC-E.htm
Its under pt #47 and 48 down in the hole they sit. It has a funny head on it and you would have had to remove it with needle nose plyers or might find the spedial tool to take it out. It controls how far the rods drop.
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Old 10-16-2004, 11:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59toaster
did you happen to mess with the adjustment under the primary rods?
nope. opening up the carb today to check everything mentioned in this thread. i'll keep you posted.
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:11 AM   #23
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While you are mentiong Jeg's have you seen the rebuilt Edelbrocks there..they are fairly priced...might be a good choice if all else fails..but hang with the Q-jet...for awhile it will hopefully come together for you.
Mine was running quite rich until I cleaned the heck out of it and ran a few bottles of Marvel Mystery oil thru the tank. I run that stuff thru every few tankfuls. Its a mystery, but my dad used it for decades and I'm kind of stuck on it. I know yours is already clean, but a small piece of garbage somewere can really screw up the adjustments.
By the way, to those who follwed my fuel filter replacement recently, when I switched it around ( the carb one) the whole situation changed, from chokin' and stumblin' to clean and smooth. Sure felt stupid, but so it goes sometimes.
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Old 10-17-2004, 04:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swebster
I'm really hoping to keep this carb long enough for me to fund an FI conversion next year. Hate to spend the bucks right now on something I don't want to keep.
Now your on to something. The FI replacement is the way to go.
The money you'll save in gas mileage alone will pay for the replacement in a year or two.
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:32 PM   #25
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Question The Jury is still out...but....

I "may" have found the problem; well at least I found one or two problems. Here is what I discovered when I opened up the carb:

When I started to take apart the carb I noticed that two of the base plate screws were fairly loose. Not sure if that caused any issues but it made me wonder about leaks. When I opened the top I noticed two things; first the primary needle hanger (see #47 on Toasters' reference) was slightly bent up on one side. Well that sure could cause some problems. Secondly, I noticed that there was a little retaining cap on top on the power piston which was loose, actually it was sitting up on top of the casting and prevented the primaries from fully closing. I did not find an debris in the seats but thought I might have found the problem already.

Nothing else seemed strange. Sealed up the fuel wells with JB Weld and cut out the idle mixture screw plugs (a while you're there kind of thing). Straightened the primary hanger and made sure the little retainer was seating properly. Reassembly was pretty much by the book from there.

Just for good measure I replaced all of the plugs with AC Delco R44T's and did an oil change.

OK, I may have inhaled a few too many gasoline fumes but...I think I got it.

When I started her up everything was different. First off the engine fired up right away without any of the usual cold start stumbling. Also, there was no smoke coming from the exhaust on high idle. (BTW - the high idle and low idle points were all off at 2400 and 1000 rpm respectively.) I let the engine warm up and took her out on a quick drive on local roads. Things seemed fine so I took her out on the highway for a loop around the city then back to the office. I let her cool down and pulled the number eight plug expecting to see a lot of soot. Now the plugs were literally brand new but to my surprise the plug looked great. A little brown tip and clean.

Now this is only a 10 mile test run so I'll know for sure next weekend when we head to Cloudland Caynon. Hopefully the bent hanger and unseated cap was the problem but I figure if its not fixed, at least I'll be surrounded by a lot of AS owners with a ton of opinions about carburators in only six days!

Alan - I certainly was looking at those carbs on Jegs.com. I also noticed that they now carry those Jet rebuilds for around a good price as well.

Gary - I go back and forth on the carb/FI thing but the more I think about the more that Edlebrock FI kit seems like a good idea.
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Old 10-17-2004, 10:24 PM   #26
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Got to love obvious problems!

Ohh here is a teaser. FACTORY Spread bore GM FI. This is sitting in a box and was going on my GMC but now its ear marked for a 455 for my 1970 Pontiac. I have two of these. the other one is on burb you rode around in.

Isn't it pretty? It will bolt right onto your existing intake and it will use the signall from your VSS for your existing cruise control.

87-89 454 trucks with the body like my Burb is what your looking for in the junk yard. Its harness is nearly a drop in like a Aftermarket because it was retrofited to the old body. The harness is not tied into any of the other harnesses except for the power leads.
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Old 10-18-2004, 06:31 AM   #27
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Good deal, seems you probably cured it. Be safe on the road this week.
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Old 10-18-2004, 07:11 AM   #28
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It will bolt right onto your existing intake and it will use the signall from your VSS for your existing cruise control.
Junk yard bolt in fuel injection? Now you're talkin' my language! Tell me more!
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