Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-14-2007, 05:24 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
guy99's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Dunsmuir , California
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,336
Images: 16
Ignition relay help needed

Hola from Sonora Mexico.

While traveling from Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point) to Bahia Kino (Kino Bay) yesterday we experienced a total ignition failure. With luck we were able to coast to a dirt road and get off the highway. (A good thing since there was only one lane in our direction and NO shoulder). After a bit of poking around found that with the key in the on position there was no power to the distributor, or electric fuel pump, or anything else powered when the key is on. With the help of some very nice people haywired power to the ignition et al at the fuse panel. Drove to RV Park in Santa Ana, this morning the proprietor brought a mechanic who determined that the ignition relay had failed. Off he and the RV Park owner went to get a replacement. After some considerable while they returned and reported that they had been unable to find the needed part new, but had obtained one from a junk yard. Installed the part and all is good, but for how long?

We will be passing through Hermisillo tomorrow and MAY be able to get a new one. As an alternative, is there is any reason why I shouldn't reverse engineer the wires coming in to the relay and replace it with a more modern relay such as this:

Click image for larger version

Name:	PC140096.JPG
Views:	74
Size:	504.0 KB
ID:	50879
Click image for larger version

Name:	PC140098.JPG
Views:	81
Size:	573.5 KB
ID:	50880
__________________

__________________
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion - The Dalai Lama

1984 310 Limited Motorhome
Courtesy Parking (W/S/E/Wi-Fi) on I-5 in Northern California, 70 miles from Oregon border
guy99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 06:17 PM   #2
Moderator
Commercial Member
 
eubank's Avatar
 
1967 30' Sovereign
Bosque Farms , New Mexico
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,423
They crap out from time to time. Make sure they don't get wet (with whatever); it can cause corrosion inside and failure.

Lynn
__________________

__________________
WBCCI 21043
eubank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 06:22 PM   #3
2 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
Mono City , California
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
Guy99,
The Bosch relay you show can handle 20amps on the NO normally open contacts, that's between terminals 30 and 87. 30 amps on the NC normally closed contacts, that's between terminals 30 and 87a. If the total current load of the circuits supplied by the old relay are within the amp ratings I have listed, you would have no problem. Can you take a photo of the old relay? and post. I would like to see what type you are trying to replace. You stated that you were in a RV park in Santa Ana? is that CA.
__________________
TBSarfari28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 08:13 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Excella CM's Avatar
 
1978 31' Excella 500
Venice , California
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,061
In a pinch you can simply jump the socket from the blade that is orthogonal to the others to the second one irectly in line (the top and bottom ones in your photo. You need to undo the jump when you shut down.
__________________
"Not all who are laundering are washed" say Bill & Heidi

'78 Excella 500,"The Silver Pullit". vacuum over hydraulic disc brakes, center bath, rear twin. '67 Travelall 1200 B 4X4 WBCCI 3737
Excella CM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 08:22 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
guy99's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Dunsmuir , California
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,336
Images: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBSarfari28
Guy99,
The Bosch relay you show can handle 20amps on the NO normally open contacts, that's between terminals 30 and 87. 30 amps on the NC normally closed contacts, that's between terminals 30 and 87a. If the total current load of the circuits supplied by the old relay are within the amp ratings I have listed, you would have no problem. Can you take a photo of the old relay? and post. I would like to see what type you are trying to replace. You stated that you were in a RV park in Santa Ana? is that CA.
Santa Ana, Sonoma, Mexico. Santa Ana Sonora Mexico Driving Map


I would need to use the NO terminals. I'm not sure I can tell what the max current on the circuit would be. I suppose I could stick a 20 amp fuse in the circuit.

I'll post a picture of the old relay when I can.
__________________
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion - The Dalai Lama

1984 310 Limited Motorhome
Courtesy Parking (W/S/E/Wi-Fi) on I-5 in Northern California, 70 miles from Oregon border
guy99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 08:51 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
guy99's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Dunsmuir , California
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,336
Images: 16
Here are the picture of the connector and the relay.
The connector:
Click image for larger version

Name:	PC140099.JPG
Views:	72
Size:	690.9 KB
ID:	50889
Terminals on the relay:
Click image for larger version

Name:	PC140100.JPG
Views:	64
Size:	575.7 KB
ID:	50890
Side of relay:
Click image for larger version

Name:	PC140101.JPG
Views:	59
Size:	583.8 KB
ID:	50891
Other side of relay
Click image for larger version

Name:	PC140102.JPG
Views:	78
Size:	630.7 KB
ID:	50892
__________________
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion - The Dalai Lama

1984 310 Limited Motorhome
Courtesy Parking (W/S/E/Wi-Fi) on I-5 in Northern California, 70 miles from Oregon border
guy99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2007, 11:16 PM   #7
2 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
Mono City , California
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
The Bosch relay would most likey handle the current load of the circuits. If the current is over 20 amps the contacts would handle the load for sometime, til you get home or state side. If you can fine a parts supplier in the area that has truck parts, you could get a Cole Hersee solenoid part number 24059, this would more than handle the current, would out last the motorhome. Go to Cole Hersee Co. then click on solenoids, the first photo on the left is the type. It must be mounted vertically, and could be installed in the same area as the old one. They are used on many heavy-duty trucks as accessory relays. The two small terminals are the coil, and the load circuit the large terminals. Hope this helps. Good luck!
__________________
TBSarfari28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 07:35 AM   #8
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,189
That was a standard relay for some years. When you get back to the states, you should be able to get a replacement for it, along with a spare. If the mechanic making the field repair hasn't done so, he can use male spade connectors to wires, to female spade connectors, to the Bosch relay. That way, when you get home, all you have to do is unplug the male connectors, along with the relay.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 08:57 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
guy99's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Dunsmuir , California
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,336
Images: 16
Thanks fellows.

I'm going to try to make it to Kino Bay on the junk yard relay. From there I will take the toad in to Hermosillo to look for the proper part (or a better substitute ala TBSafari28).

If I have another failure or can't find a suitable part, I'll do as Terry suggests (good idea with the wires).

An interesting thing about the Bosch relay is that it has a schematic embossed in the side of the case.

Do you happen to know the pin assignment on my existing relay?
__________________
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion - The Dalai Lama

1984 310 Limited Motorhome
Courtesy Parking (W/S/E/Wi-Fi) on I-5 in Northern California, 70 miles from Oregon border
guy99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 10:56 AM   #10
2 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
Mono City , California
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 61
My real background is in heavy-duty vehicles, and the old relay is not a common one used in my area of experience. I have seen them, I believe the two terminals in the middle that are closest together are the coil. On your Bosch relay that would be terminals 85 and 86, it does not matter which way you hook the wires up, 85-86 or 86-85 from the old relay. The other two would be the load circuit, connect the two wires from the old relay to terminals 30 and 87 of the Bosch relay, again it does not matter which wire goes on what termnal. Usually the hot side coming from the battery/fuse side connects to terminal 30 and load circuits to terminal 87. Take the old relay and have someone check to see what is wrong with it, open in the coil or hgih resistance in the NO contacts. It most likely just died of old age. If the NO contacts have burned because of higher than normal current draw, caused by a fuel pump that is starting to fail or some other load/component in the circuit that is drawing to much current the new relay with fail soon. Take a spare with you, just in case. Hope your trip has no other problems.
__________________
TBSarfari28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBSarfari28
.....If the NO contacts have burned because of higher than normal current draw, caused by a fuel pump that is starting to fail or some other load/component in the circuit that is drawing to much current the new relay with fail soon. Take a spare with you, just in case. Hope your trip has no other problems.
You bring up an interesting point about the fuel pump. Its my understanding Airstream added an electric fuel pump to the classic motorhomes after reports of vapor lock were reported. I wonder if the addition of this fuel pump might be overloading the relay. This is just speculation but we all might expect to see these relays start to fail in the years to come.

After reading these posts I'm considering adding a separate relay just for the electric fuel pump. Also carrying a spare relay is good practical advice that I plan on following.

Thanks

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 09:01 PM   #12
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler
After reading these posts I'm considering adding a separate relay just for the electric fuel pump. Also carrying a spare relay is good practical advice that I plan on following.
Brad, your MoHo should already have a separate relay for the fuel pump, especially if it is fuel injected.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 09:43 PM   #13
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
Brad, your MoHo should already have a separate relay for the fuel pump, especially if it is fuel injected.
Terry, unfortunately our 84 310 is not fuel injected. When I get a chance I'll chase down the wiring for the fuel pump and see if it has its own relay. If it does then I need to make sure I have a spare for it as well as the ignition relay.

Thanks!

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2007, 09:59 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
guy99's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Dunsmuir , California
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,336
Images: 16
No Joy. Help needed

OK, I'm confused.

Started out today headed for Kino Bay. Rig began to stumble under constant load (65 MPH) and have poor/no power for acceleration.

Found a spot to pull off. Shut down. Tried to restart, wouldn't start. Found no power to distributor with key on. So I figured it was the problem relay. Assuming that the relay was simple and that I could jumper around its function, I jumped between the input (always hot) and the output. As soon as I did, the starter ran but rig would not start. I was surprised since I though this was the ignition relay not the starter relay. Must be a starter relay, but why when it was failing would they starter still run off of the key? Ran a wire with a switch from hot to ignition primary. Flip switch, turn key to start, starter engages, engine starts, we are good to go.

OK, this relay must be the starter relay, why is the ignition primary dead?
__________________

__________________
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion - The Dalai Lama

1984 310 Limited Motorhome
Courtesy Parking (W/S/E/Wi-Fi) on I-5 in Northern California, 70 miles from Oregon border
guy99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
battery isolator/relay Honkity Hank Classic Motorhomes 11 11-18-2010 10:00 AM
Location of Horn Relay? guy99 Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 11 08-12-2007 08:25 PM
Ignition system advice needed rdm Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 6 10-14-2006 11:53 PM
Ac Relay ? tinman7 Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 7 06-08-2004 07:50 PM
Suburban furnace.. need relay.. Happycampers Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 5 05-10-2004 03:35 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.