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Old 06-19-2006, 01:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guy99
Tim,
You addressed your message to me but it was Dennis who posted this very useful information.
Guy,

My apologies. I'd like to believe that was a result of thinking faster than I can type, but it's most certainly not paying close enough attention .

Thanks,
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Old 06-19-2006, 01:32 PM   #30
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Dennis, (I think I at least got your name right this time )

I'm quite anxious to see how this works out, and will keep you informed. At least I have a 30-day, no questions asked return policy if this does, indeed, cause the lugging you've mentioned, or any of the problems like heat, etc. Secondly, I still have to go back to the very low (2200 rpm) range of peak torque on the 460 Ford vs quite a bit higher for the 454 Chevy, as well as I can't think of any other way to get this rolling blimp to move faster than 55.

Thanks so much for your input. If you come up with other material related to this issue, I'd love to hear it.

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Old 06-19-2006, 08:54 PM   #31
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Dennis, I'm confused... but that's not anything new. You wrote "(there is a "sweet spot" between 60 and 63 mph - where the engine is turning over about 3000 rpm, give or take 100) I have inferred that the GM engineers have placed the correct final drive ratio in the chassis - I do not believe I could benefit by a lower ratio final drive.)"
To me that sounds like you conclude that your top speed should then be 60-63 mph. If on todays interstate highways you want to keep up with traffic at 70-74 mph and you can turn 3000 rpm's doing so how does this not make sense?
Other than wind tunnel data we don't have ...to say that the aerodynamic drag at that speed is going to defeat fuel economy my contention (without being contentious) is that in some cases the addition of gear splitting is valid.
Remember this is not an axel splitter but a true aux. transmission that enables shorter shifting in the appropriate rpm range.
For me time is money, my rig runs daily. If I can go down the road faster AND / OR more economically without luggin my engine, how do I loose?
The best case in point is all the newer coaches that went to four speed transmissions. The extra gear ment higher speeds and lower rpms.
Today I beat feet up I-77 and at 73mph was turning 3200 rpms... to fast an engine speed for my liking. If I could do that speed at say 27-2800 rpms I wonder what my fuel savings, if any, would be. I know that during the heat of the day in summer that would have me running engine temp in the 205-210 range vs. 190 at 27-2800 rpm.
The 370 Gillig chassis in question for Tim is actually a city bus chassis geared for moving heavy loads at city stop and go speeds. The 5.29 rear end was never ment for highway use. An overdrive gear of modest gain is certainly in order for Tim's intended use.
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Old 06-21-2006, 11:47 AM   #32
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Hmmm....got awful quiet on this thread, didn't it? Tim has your new unit come in yet???? huh, Huh!?? I'm so excited. Also have you had time to hunt down the new/alternate driveshaft?
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenCoombe
Hmmm....got awful quiet on this thread, didn't it? Tim has your new unit come in yet???? huh, Huh!?? I'm so excited. Also have you had time to hunt down the new/alternate driveshaft?
Silence did become almost audible, didn't it? Could be several reasons, I guess. Incidentally, I just got confirmation the unit was shipped from CW (10% discount, but handled with a P.O. by GV ). No time yet to look for driveshaft, but looks like I'll have the GV unit sooner than expected. CW is usually very quick with their shipping. I'll keep you posted. Got to remember to take pictures .

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Old 06-21-2006, 03:50 PM   #34
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Wow Tim, I hadn't even thought about the President's Club discount from Camping World! That's one way to justify the membership I'd say. If only they could be trusted to install it.....
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Old 06-21-2006, 03:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenCoombe
Wow Tim, I hadn't even thought about the President's Club discount from Camping World! That's one way to justify the membership I'd say. If only they could be trusted to install it.....
Glen,

This is one time the cost of PC has been worth it. GV does not offer their trannies at a discount ever, but they're the ones who suggested they P.O. it through CW since I was a member of the PC. I never even contacted CW. They sent me an email today saying the GV unit had been shipped!

Install - I've been told repeatedly that any good transmission shop can do this job, and that it's not that difficult. They should also know a good shop that does the machine work on the drive shaft. Any good transmission shops in your area?
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Old 06-21-2006, 05:27 PM   #36
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a related question...what kind of fuel mileage could I expect out of a 460 in a f250? Articles say this engine gave a combination of durable power and fuel efficiency, but I don't find any approx numbers.
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:40 AM   #37
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G V vs Power to weight ratio

This is a very important thread for all classic owners. It's an empirical test we can all learn from. The GV's extra gears will undoudtedley apply the engines power and torque more efficiently into forward motion. The power to wieght ratio ,however, of this particular vehicle may make the fuel savings marginal. I'll be very interestd in the outcome. Cheers Tom
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Old 07-02-2006, 11:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderingeye
This is a very important thread for all classic owners. It's an empirical test we can all learn from. The GV's extra gears will undoudtedley apply the engines power and torque more efficiently into forward motion. The power to wieght ratio ,however, of this particular vehicle may make the fuel savings marginal. I'll be very interestd in the outcome. Cheers Tom
Tom,

I'll keep you posted. I really am not doing this primarily for fuel savings, if you've been following the thread. I suspect there's only so much to be done with a front engine gaser that weighs almost 18,000 lbs. My main purpose is the power and torque applications. Six speeds have to be better than 3, especially with that 5.29 axle. It should come in this week, but I'm leaving Sat. for a week, so it will probably be after July 16 before the installation .

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Old 07-02-2006, 01:53 PM   #39
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Thumbs up Go For It!!

Greetings All; pleasantly mild here today. Been on the road, so am offering my three cent a bit late in the game...

Was fortunate enough to have acquired our Classic with both Banks and GearVendor already in place. While we're not mechanical experts, even less familiar with figures or graphs, what we can tell you from practical experience: you'll LOVE it!

With the GearVendor overdrive, our coach runs around 2200 rpm at 60 mph, perhaps 2500 rpm at 70 mph (yes, we've had to watch our speed) with absolutely no extra effort or laboring of the engine. Temp-wise we always run a cool 160-180, this mostly dependent on the ambient, and at 60-62 mph achieve a consistent 8-8.5 mpg w/o toad. Torque is fantastic, pulling the Grapevine a piece of cake; we've had no mechanical issues whatsoever.

The difference in sportscar-like performance of our Classic's Banks, GearVendor setup vs. our previous coach with stock 454/3spd (which, at 55 mph, seemed to peak out at a loud 3000 rpm) is like day and night; we wouldn't own another coach without both or, at the very least, the GV gearsplitter and wholeheartedly encourage all Classic owners to consider same. Here's wishing you success - and continued safe travels - with your GearVendor installation.
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Old 07-02-2006, 03:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGoate
Greetings All; pleasantly mild here today. Been on the road, so am offering my three cent a bit late in the game...

Was fortunate enough to have acquired our Classic with both Banks and GearVendor already in place. While we're not mechanical experts, even less familiar with figures or graphs, what we can tell you from practical experience: you'll LOVE it!

With the GearVendor overdrive, our coach runs around 2200 rpm at 60 mph, perhaps 2500 rpm at 70 mph (yes, we've had to watch our speed) with absolutely no extra effort or laboring of the engine. Temp-wise we always run a cool 160-180, this mostly dependent on the ambient, and at 60-62 mph achieve a consistent 8-8.5 mpg w/o toad. Torque is fantastic, pulling the Grapevine a piece of cake; we've had no mechanical issues whatsoever.

The difference in sportscar-like performance of our Classic's Banks, GearVendor setup vs. our previous coach with stock 454/3spd (which, at 55 mph, seemed to peak out at a loud 3000 rpm) is like day and night; we wouldn't own another coach without both or, at the very least, the GV gearsplitter and wholeheartedly encourage all Classic owners to consider same. Here's wishing you success - and continued safe travels - with your GearVendor installation.
Thanks so much for the encouragement! I've weighed this issue for almost 2 years. The GV is very expensive, but I finally decided it was that, resign myself to 55 mph ALL the time, or sell the coach. Since I got the coach from my brother , I figured I could stretch the budget and get the gears . The 370 has a Ford 460 with a Gillig chassis which will NOT allow the Banks to fit, so I'll have to settle for the GV. So glad to hear it's probably the better of the two IF one has to choose. I'll be posting the changes, and some pics , when this gets done.

By the way, it's 95 degrees here today. A far cry from pleasantly cool .

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Old 07-28-2006, 07:55 PM   #41
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gear vendors

Tim, How is the installation going? When will we have performance data?
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:56 AM   #42
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GV and misc repairs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderingeye
Tim, How is the installation going? When will we have performance data?
Tom,

This has been much slower to accomplish than I anticipated. My neighbor who owns the transmission shop turned out to know a lot less about GV than he had let on . After calling the GV people (great people, by the way), THEY recommended I find someone else. Found a shop that's been around this area all my life, although they have a new facility and now specialize in big rigs and MoHos. They have the Silver Blimp now. I took a 500 mile trip several weeks ago and made careful records of the performance without the GV, so I can run a fairly objective comparison as soon as I get it back. Should be early next week. I did take a few "before" pictures, but I sure had a difficult time getting decent pictures underneath the drive line. Anyway, I'm obviously very anxious to get this done and run the comparisons.

By the way, also discovered a leaking left rear axle seal (which is being repaired along with the GV installation), and the air control valve for the right rear tag axle was dangling by the lift rod and air hoses when I came in from the trip. Two bolts had fallen completely out. Fixed that myself . Two other quick items. I've had a very slight weep at the gas tank drain plug for several weeks. Tried tightening several times, but no luck. Finally pulled the plug, got my son-in-law to plug the hole while I put gasoline resistant grade Teflon tape on the plug. Really a fun job under a full 80 gallon gas tank . Anyone else have this happen? Finally, I found the large "keeper ring" from the left side tag axle just dangling around the axle. Put the ring back in place and tried to be sure it was set in position, but I can't be sure. Anyone ever had to deal with those before? Is there anything I need to do to be sure it stays there?

Sorry to run so long. I know you didn't ask about all this, but it does all fit together with the GV job.

I'll report as soon as possible on the results.

Best
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