Gas vs. Diesel

[scottg]

Wow. Someone is having some fun. That is an impressive collection of autos.

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by scottg

Wow. Someone is having some fun. That is an impressive collection of autos.

You know us guys like our toys.

[mayco]

Beautiful, what fun! Thanks for letting us see!

Mike

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by mayco

Beautiful, what fun! Thanks for letting us see!

Mike

Anytime Mike.

I am always amazed by the things that can be done to a diesel engine. From the old 2 cylinder John Deere tractors with bucket sized pistons to the screaming 2 cycle Detroit's to the tiny little 799cc 3 cylinder turbo diesel in the smart. I was in a shop once that was making a set of head bolts for a 4 cylinder Fiat diesel from an ocean going freighter. Each bolt was 9" in diameter and 33' long. I didn't get to see the pistons but they must have been impressive.

[Kota]

I posted this in another thread. I've been dealing with Vander Haag's for new used and reman truck parts. It's interesting to look at their used diesels. "Only 383,000 miles". You won't see that on a 454.

I had to drain stale gasoline out of the lawnmower today. Nothing stinks like stale gas. Hard to wash off too.

[switz]

Had a custom ordered 1975 5 cylinder Mercedes sedan. The engine ran well and was an excellent driver. Lovely red leather interior in a white car. Wish I still had it.

About that time Mercedes was looking for the highest mileage one owner car in America. A chap in the Northwest had a significant commute of over several hundred miles each way and the four cylinder normally aspirated 240D had a documented over one million miles on the vehicle. Just routine maintenance..........

Makes me think of the late 1930s built Douglas DC3 aircraft still flying today with over 50,000 flight hours. Good maintenance has kept this birds in the air all these years.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Smartstream

Anytime Mike.

I was in a shop once that was making a set of head bolts for a 4 cylinder Fiat diesel from an ocean going freighter. Each bolt was 9" in diameter and 33' long. I didn't get to see the pistons but they must have been impressive.

As a person who has ridden B.C Ferries many, many, too many times though the tiny stairways and been on a few RN vessels, I'm having a bit of difficulty try to fathom how they get the bolts into the engine compartment and further more; what kind of bad a$$ torque wrench would you need to torque those bad boys down.

Also trying to remember where the Millbay ferry went to, Swartz bay or an island? Most of my runs were to and fro from Saltspring Island. Beautiful area to explore.

Cheers
Tony

[Waipio Rim]

[QUOTE=Kota;1626430]I posted this in another thread. I've been dealing with Vander Haag's for new used and reman truck parts. It's interesting to look at their used diesels. "Only 383,000 miles". You won't see that on a 454.

1 million miles in a Chevy Silverado - CNET

You sure?

[Kota]

[QUOTE=Waipio Rim;1626484]

Originally Posted by Kota

I posted this in another thread. I've been dealing with Vander Haag's for new used and reman truck parts. It's interesting to look at their used diesels. "Only 383,000 miles". You won't see that on a 454.



1 million miles in a Chevy Silverado - CNET



You sure?

So you are saying that people routinely get 1 million miles out of 454s? Most I've seen, especially in heavier applications, don't make 100k.

[Waipio Rim]

Not routine, and this was probably a 350. But, I'm not that far from 100k, and the 454 seems to be pretty stable. I do change the oil a lot and keep a close eye on the engine temp when we are in the mountains.

[Smartstream]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

As a person who has ridden B.C Ferries many, many, too many times though the tiny stairways and been on a few RN vessels, I'm having a bit of difficulty try to fathom how they get the bolts into the engine compartment and further more; what kind of bad a$$ torque wrench would you need to torque those bad boys down.

Also trying to remember where the Millbay ferry went to, Swartz bay or an island? Most of my runs were to and fro from Saltspring Island. Beautiful area to explore.

Cheers
Tony

It's actually called the Brentwood - Mill Bay Ferry and goes from basically Central Saanich west across the bay to just south of Mill Bay and north of the Malahat Pass. My buddy, the guy with the green Speedster lives in Saanich north of Victoria and it's a pleasant way to go north toward Duncan without going over the pass. We have driven the Malahat in the old Model T's and it's fun but it isn't very fast if you know what I mean.

When I worked at L.A. Water & Power about the largest bolts we dealt with were 5" dia. and 6 or 7 feet long. They had a hole bored down the center. We had long mics to measure the length, then insert a "bolt heater" to lengthen the bolt, take up the nut, let it cool and measure again. Torque was measured in "bolt stretch" which is actually the most accurate method.
To get the big stuff in and out of the ferries and ships they use a cutting torch, cut a big hole and weld it back up. It makes access easy.

[Kota]

Originally Posted by Waipio Rim

Not routine, and this was probably a 350. But, I'm not that far from 100k, and the 454 seems to be pretty stable. I do change the oil a lot and keep a close eye on the engine temp when we are in the mountains.

Don't get me wrong! I'm not trashing the 454. I just got rid of a 98 Ford Explorer with a 5.0L (302) that was still running strong at 190k. It was very well cared for with religious oil changes at 5k with Mobil 1. I had a Toyota Cellica (22RE) that I gave to a friend at 180k. He's still driving it at 250k but its ready for the bone yard.

We have a bunch of U-pull-it "recycle" yards in Colorado. I use them for a source of parts for for vehicles I've restored and upgraded to modern drive trains. 150 to 180k seems to be the magic number where vehicles without obvious demise face the crusher.

My point being that they sell these used commercially operated diesels at half a million miles and consider them low mileage.

That said, you can abuse and burn up a diesel just as quick as a gas engine.

[tjdonahoe]

On the big truck engines it's' not unusual to get a million miles, I have 1.4 million on my E model cat, head never been off and original turbo, still doing good....my 7.3 ford with 189,000 the head gasket started leaking, fuel pump was also leaking and I sold it as is, I sure like my 6.7 dodge with 90,000 miles now......

[scottg]

Original turbo?? That has been another thing that I was worried about. I cannot believe something with that kind of tolerance could live that long. That's amazing. I had a discussion with a guy who was a truck driver for part of his life. He talked about how turbos decrease the life of an engine due to the pressures exerted. I believe in turbos, but I was under the impression (from this one person only) that a diesel would have a longer life without the one. But a million miles later, I suppose that was not educated information!

[GCinSC2]

Seems like comments in many directions, I'll add one from last Thursday.

30' S/O 2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L Cummins 6 speed.

Pulled I-77 NC into VA up to Fancy Gap. 7 miles 7% grade.

5th gear pull, engine added about 8-10 degrees on coolant temp. I have a digital Gage. Crested hill and down went engine temp.

Manual transmission, not racing, did its job admirably. Even accelerated a bit to pass and clear the lane.

Works for me.

[switz]

Unfortunately, those selling diesel trucks with turbo chargers fail to mention proper startup and shut down procedures.

Start engine with foot off the throttle and do not rev the engine until full oil pressure is present. Give it a minute or so to get some warm oil in the bearings. Goosing the throttle at startup can score bearings as these turbos turn at close to 100,000 rpm (and the smaller ones we made could turn over 200,000 rpm) and need oil.

On shutdown, let the EGT drop to around 370 degrees or idle for a couple of minutes to get the temperature down on the exhaust system. If the engine is shutoff while still very hot (pulling into a fuel station after a hill, for example), the oil stops flowing with the turbo is still rotating at a high rpm which is bad for bearings and then the heat soak cooks the oil onto the turbine shaft and bearings (called coking).

With the newer variable vane turbochargers, proper starting and shutdown become more important as there are many more moving parts inside the unit.

The Insight Edge gage system I installed in our truck has an automatic shutdown feature that allows me to turn of the ignition switch, get out and lock the door and walk away with the engine running. It will turn off when the EGT has dropped to the temperature I set.

[scottg]

I know older sport and WWII airplanes have a oil pump that is started before starting the engine. Is there something like that available for trucks? Seems like it would take care of something like that. Start the pump for 2 minutes before starting the engine to lube and build pressure. Then on shut down, automatically run the pump until hitting a target low temp. Turbo would have to be spinning though I guess.

[GCinSC2]

EGT monitoring is useful if you are a bit of a diesel nut but never heard of a stock truck equipped with EGT displayed as a part of gage package.

Not disputing the value of turbo cool down time, but it requires an auxiliary gage and probe input. I can monitor EGT on my VW TDI also, aftermarket Gage.

BTW my recent 600 mile or so trip was 12 MPG hand calculated.

[SebasSF]

Ok, gotta jump in here as I'm trying to figure out if I should keep my 1991 300LE, or 1994 Classic 36 Diesel Pusher. I know everything about the 300- 5k on the motor, 60k miles on the rv, and trans rebuild, and I just had the motor rebuilt on the diesel, a 5.9 Cummins 230hp with 55k total miles. If I could combine the two and have a 30' diesel, pusher, I would keep it forever!

Regarding startup and shutdown, I was reading the Cummins manual, and it says if you have not run it in 7 days, you should disconnect the wire from the fuel pump solenoid turn the motor over till you get pressure on the oil gauge or the light goes out, then reconnect the wire and start the motor. I was thinking of installing a switch on the dash, and wonder why the factory did not? Good points on cool down. Anyone leave the motor running when fueling up?

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by SebasSF

Ok, gotta jump in here as I'm trying to figure out if I should keep my 1991 300LE, or 1994 Classic 36 Diesel Pusher. I know everything about the 300- 5k on the motor, 60k miles on the rv, and trans rebuild, and I just had the motor rebuilt on the diesel, a 5.9 Cummins 230hp with 55k total miles. If I could combine the two and have a 30' diesel, pusher, I would keep it forever!

Regarding startup and shutdown, I was reading the Cummins manual, and it says if you have not run it in 7 days, you should disconnect the wire from the fuel pump solenoid turn the motor over till you get pressure on the oil gauge or the light goes out, then reconnect the wire and start the motor. I was thinking of installing a switch on the dash, and wonder why the factory did not? Good points on cool down. Anyone leave the motor running when fueling up?

If you manage to figure out how to make a 30' diesel pusher please put me down for three of them as I could easily sell them to people that want to buy mine.

As for disabling fuel pump and them cranking motor until oil pressure comes up is sound advice but totally impractical and will result in you buying a few starters.

I wonder if Cummins puts that into the manual in order to disallow warranty claims from RV'ers. Seems a little over kill to me. What's the difference having the engine turn over with no oil pressure, as opposed to starting with no oil pressure? Wouldn't the engine have to turn over the same amount of revolutions?

I do wonder if I could put a remote oiler that would circulate oil around the motor BEFORE start up, using much the same system as aircraft engines used in WWII?

Maybe this?http://www.masterlube.net/home.htm

I have learnt my lesson and prefill the oil filter housing before installation.

Cheers
Tony