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Old 04-26-2009, 07:48 AM   #29
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For what it's worth the Suburban tranny was done at the same time the engine was and had a B&M shift kit added...?? Not sure what that helps but it and the GearVendor both work fine in the 'burb.

Do torque converters have any numbers that would give away what they are and what they do? How do you know if you've got a 'tow and go' TQ?

As I'm hopeful of converting my tandem axle boat trailer to a car hauler I will be taking a look at the TQ while all is apart.
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:32 AM   #30
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For a 454, I would go with a 750 or 800 CFM carb. Edelbrock recommends them for engines larger than 402 CID. I used a 600 on my small block Dodge van, and it was the best carb I ever dealt with, and I'v rebuilt and lived with a bunch.
Vaugn,

I did a bunch of research before selecting a carburetor. For maximum torque the recommendation is to keep the carburetor on the low end of the CFM range. The larger CFM carburetors are required when you're running at max rpms. I never run higher than 3000 except maybe to pass someone and even then I generally only do so when I don't have to "gun" it.

My research found for a 454 running at 4000 rpm with an 83% volumetric efficiency the max CFM required is 436. At 100% volumetric efficiency the max CFM required is 525.

Mileage will suffer when running a carburetor with a higher rating that is required for the job. So my choice of a 600 CFM carburetor was based on running at around 3000 rpm (or hopefully a little lower), torque requirements and preferrably better gas mileage.

Also someone I know in CA that is running pretty much the exact same engine, cam and intake has a 750 or 800 CFM carburetor on his Argosy and told me he was not that happy with the performance (mileage) and will be switching to a 600 or 650 (depending on what he can find) CFM carburetor when he gets a chance.

Brad
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:38 AM   #31
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Do torque converters have any numbers that would give away what they are and what they do? How do you know if you've got a 'tow and go' TQ?
I'm also interested in what you find out about torque converters.

Quote:
As I'm hopeful of converting my tandem axle boat trailer to a car hauler I will be taking a look at the TQ while all is apart.
We have a homemade 14' flatbed trailer that uses 2000 lb boat axles under it that we use to tow Susan's race Spitfire and other smaller cars. I've been very happy with how the trailer tows and the fact that its lighter in weight compared to the tandem axle trailers that use the larger 3500 lb axles.

Other advantages are smaller and cheaper tires (13 vs 15) and the brake assemblies are cheaper as well.

Brad
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:40 AM   #32
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Terry,

I think Glen has the answer in that our tires are larger in diameter than normal which would make the difference.
Brad
That's very possible, though my F250 had larger than stock tires as well.

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Susan is VERY good at managing money, maybe you should let her manage yours....... .
If I ever get any money to manage, I'll give her a call.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:17 AM   #33
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Hi Brad,

My recommendation for a 750 or 800 comes from running a 600CFM Carter AFB on a (non-stock) Plymouth 456. Like you, my interest was in letting the torque do the work at low speeds and getting fuel economy. The AFB (on which the Edelbrock is based) has vacuum operated secondaries and will deliver excellent fuel economy at part throttle. Obviously the larger sizes don't get as much MPG when you put your foot in it, but that is up to the operator. I was thinkin' that every now and then the extra boost would come in handy while going up entrance ramps on congested Interstates or climbing mountain passes.

Another reason was that the original, much maligned, Rochester Quadrajet was a 750 or 800. They were harder to work on than Holleys, but when correct they performed very well for thousands of miles and returned good fuel mileage when driven with restraint. That's the whole reason for the spread bore design. I will admit that when the secondaries open up it sounds like a high volume toilet flushing! I never felt the need to replace them with anything else. If I did, it would un questionably be with an Edelbrock.

I was just thinking that given the mass being moved that on occasion the extra power would be worth consideration. Having said that, the 600 certainly would not be a bad choice either.

I also agree that the troque converter is worth an upgrade.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:08 PM   #34
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Finally we have forward momentum. The motor came out of the Suburban and the shop doing the heads couldn't find their valve guide tool for a big block.

The bus made it to the shop on Monday and yesterday the engine moved out via the front with no cutting involved! Contrary to many folks experiences the guys where able to extract it with the carb removed but heads in place and they didn't even have to remove the pan!?

While they are shooting for Thursday to have the new motor in I think it will be a little more time before I'm back on the road full time.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:53 PM   #35
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Glen,

Glad to hear things are progressing and that the 454 came out without issues.

When I removed the 350 engine from the Argosy I didn't have any issues with clearances, I just removed the carburetor and bolted on one of those lifting plates that bolts on in place of the carburetor and used a standard engine hoist to remove it. There was plenty of room with a 350. From what I could tell during the removal process it looked like a 454 should go back in without removing the heads and pan. So needless to say I'm happy to hear the 454 doesn't require any cutting and I can leave the engine assembled when I'm ready to reinstall . Thanks for verifying this!

So what mods (if any) did you finally decide to do to your new motor?

Brad
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:06 PM   #36
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Well the biggest mod of course is the GearVendor unit. I'll be staying with the Q-Jet and stock intake for now. All new hoses, motor mounts, rad is going in for a redo, new water pump. Transmission cooler will be an add on as well as an electric fan up front as a pusher when needed. She'll run cool for sure folks.

They noticed a crack in one of the Headman Headers and as luck would have it this time it was on the drivers side. I just happen to have a new one from the second set I bought when I needed to replace the passenger side about 18 months ago.

I've taken the carpet out of the front section of the main floor and will be coming back in with a floating laminate floor. Now if I can just figure out a way to pay for it I'm thinking of going with a Thermo-soft headed floor. We used their tile product for our kitchen and love the warm floor in the winter.

More as it happens.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:47 PM   #37
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This engine removal is starting to sound easier by the minute. Not as easy as having a shop do it but easier than taking out the front end. Gypsy Jo
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:42 PM   #38
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Well I have to say it took just a bit longer than the original forecast but yesterday I picked up Airstream One and am beginning to put her back together. The biggest holdup was the driveshaft shortening.

Test drove yesterday and was very happy to hear / see the GearVendor drop into overdrive. The engine noise just drops away.

I've added a little front end noise with an electric pusher fan in front of the new radiator but I can live with that if the temps are all in line with my expectations. Heat is the enemy.

So to review. We extracted the engine/tranny/GV from the Suburban hear-lung donor. Extracted the engine/tranny from AS1 (out the front) and did the swap.

Along the way we refurbed the heads. Replaced both motor mounts. Installed new water pump. Kept the old Q-Jet. Replaced all the gaskets/belts.

Now the fun begins... but I think tomorrow I'll take her for a shake down cruise just to see how she performs and to check for leaks and such.
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Old 08-01-2009, 07:37 PM   #39
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Congratulations!!! Definitely need to take it for a test drive.Thats where the fun is.
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:54 PM   #40
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Test drive report. Briefly the noise is gone, she runs cool.

And I'm getting 70mph out of 2600 RPM...... according to my GPS.

SWEET!!!
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:17 PM   #41
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Test drive report. Briefly the noise is gone, she runs cool.

And I'm getting 70mph out of 2600 RPM...... according to my GPS.

SWEET!!!
Ok, NOW I'm jealous

Congratulations on getting your motorhome back on the road.

Brad
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:49 AM   #42
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Well, thanks Brad, but don't actually call it back on the road yet. I'm still putting the interior back together.

Later today if I get done with my work in time I'll rip out some more carpet in anticipation of laying the new hardwood floor.

Lowes had a "Handscraped Hickory" in the Swiftlock Plus line that matched the rest of the hickory trim in the coach so that is what is going in.

As always a work in progress and coming to a golf course or pro tour event in the south east soon.
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