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Old 04-24-2009, 08:33 AM   #15
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If you are going to the expense of a new carb. may I suggest you take a look at the 600 CFM Holley Throttle Body Fuel Injection System.

I used one years ago on a Ford 351 that I put in my 76 wagon. The unit is full adjustable.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:02 AM   #16
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Glen, I've forgotten if your coach has a generator onboard (I am thinking it does). If so, you can always run it to keep the batteries charged if the alternator fails on the road. The drag on the engine from the alternator is less than the drag of a pump-mounted fan. I would give some thought to having the fans powered on-demand, they will last longer, and there will be less draw on the electrical system. LED exterior lighting is also a good idea, if you haven't already done it. This will relieve some of the strain on the electrical system, at least when traveling with the lights on.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:56 PM   #17
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Glen, here is some information on the parts I've installed in the Argosy 454 motor. Maybe they will give you a reference point to work with. I wish I could say we've run this engine but we haven't. Probably won't for a while yet either. We did build it as a towing motorhome as we plan on towing a 1974 Excella 500 trailer behind it.

Anyway hope some of this information helps.

Comp Cams # 11-203-3 with the following specs:


Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,200-5,200 Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 212 Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 212 Duration at 050 inch Lift: 212 int./212 exh. Advertised Intake Duration: 260 Advertised Exhaust Duration: 260 Advertised Duration: 260 int./260 exh. Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.475 in. Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.475 in. Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.475 int./0.475 exh. lift Lobe Separation (degrees): 110 Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in. Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in. Computer Controlled Compatible: No Grind Number: CB 260H-10


PERFORMERŽ MANIFOLDS (Idle to 5500 rpm)

Performer manifolds are dual-plane, low-rise intake manifolds with a 180° firing order and patented runner design that you won't find in other brands. This patented design greatly improves torque over a wide rpm range for excellent throttle response, especially off-idle through the mid-range. Throttle Performers are ideal for passenger cars, trucks, 4x4s, tow vehicles and RVs. There are EGR and non-EGR versions available for most domestic V8 and some V6 engines. Most Performer intakes are 50-state street legal, when used with the correct carburetor and in the correct application. Check the individual listings for detailed information.

Chevrolet 396-502 V8
PERFORMER 2-O (idle-5500 rpm)
Designed for street 396-502 c.i.d. big-block Chevy V8s using general duty oval-port cylinder heads. #2161 is stock replacement/street legal part for 396, 402, 427 and 454 V8s with OEM 4-bbl. carb.; 1965-72 (1973 non-CA) passenger cars and 1966-83 trucks, Suburbans and heavy vehicles; except stock equipped EGR.



EDELBROCK PERFORMER SERIES 600 CFM, ELECTRIC CHOKE CARBURETORS
CALIBRATED FOR FUEL ECONOMY
Designed for small-block and small displacement big-block engines, these carbs are recommended only for stock to Performer level applications. They are not recommended for use on RPM or Torker II intake manifolds. Match with an Edelbrock Performer or Performer EPS manifold and other brands of similar design. Calibrated 2% leaner than #1405. Includes both timed and full vacuum ports for ignition advance. Comes with: Metering Jets - Primary .098, Secondary .095; Metering Rods - .075 x .047; Step-Up Spring - yellow (4" Hg). Use our Carb Stud Kits #8008 or #8024 if needed, see Installation Items. For auto trans throttle lever adapters and more, see Tuning Accessories.


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Old 04-24-2009, 09:05 PM   #18
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Glen, one thing I forgot to mention is the 454 block that we ended up using was a Hi Performance 454 car block. The deck height on the car blocks is 1/2" lower than on the 454 truck blocks. I'm not sure if the particular manifold I mentioned above is workable on the truck blocks. However your Suburban may have come with a car 454 block.

I guess the important thing to watch out for here is if you're going to shop for an intake manifold make sure you know which style block you have.

Just FYI.

Brad
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:18 AM   #19
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Brad, give me your take on the cam please. I'm a little light on cam knowledge and why/what I'm looking for. The info so far has been great. Keep it coming.

TBI is out of the question due to cost and benefit. I think the big blocks work just as well with the right carb setup. For the cost you can tune for some time to find the perfect setup vs. the TBI.

The coach does have a Honda 6010 that powers everything, indirect florescent lighting is from the factory. I've actually thought about putting electric heat in the floor I liked it so much in our kitchen remodel.... maybe not.

So many items to think about...so little money...
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:51 AM   #20
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Glen,

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenCoombe View Post
Brad, give me your take on the cam please. I'm a little light on cam knowledge and why/what I'm looking for. The info so far has been great. Keep it coming.
A friend of mine who designs cams sent me the following after he looked at the specs for the Comp Cam that I am going to use: "For good low end torque, you want a low duration. I don't know this motor, but normally you're talking about 210 to 220 degrees at 0.050 to achieve a good low end."

My take (and I could easily be wrong) on low end torque is if you have the torque at the lower limits such as 1200 up through at least 3000 then you shouldn't have to mash the pedal so hard or for so long in order to get up to speed and to maintain that speed.

I'm guessing with your coach and toad (assuming you pull one) you're still going to have a GVWR of around 12,000 to 14,000 lbs. So using a cam for good low end torque should make it easier to get rolling and keep rolling. Most cams are spec'd with the torque curve in the upper range which is where most race engines are setup for. I know my wife's race car gets about 5 to 6 mpg (using 110 octane!) and her torque band is above 5000 rpm. She will typically shift anywhere from 6500 rpm to 7500 rpm.

I've watched the tach on our 310 and when we're crusing 70 mph the rpms are right about 3000. Since I never drive over that and usually slower then any cam that has performance curves above 3000 I'm not interested in nor would I install.

Now after having said all that take everything I say with a grain of salt since I'm just guessing at most of it .

Quote:
So many items to think about...so little money...
I see we both have the same Chief Financial Officer.....

Brad
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:25 AM   #21
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Brad, have you checked your speedo against a GPS? I'm running 3,000 at a true 68 mph. Our speedometers are rather optimistic.

I agree with the comments you've made regarding low end to get the coach moving without too much effort. I never, ever, ever exceed 3,000 rpm and that's the one reason I'm getting the GearVendor in line.

When will you get a chance to run your new engine?
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:13 AM   #22
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I see we both have the same Chief Financial Officer.....

Brad
I didn't know Susan had started franchising...
As for the speedometer reading "high", it seems Detroit wanted people to think they were going faster than they were. 3000 rpm should be almost exactly 60 mph with a 4.10/4.11 rear ratio. When I had the dual overdrive setups in my F250, the engine was running about 2300 rpm at 60, with a 4.10 ratio.
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:29 PM   #23
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For a 454, I would go with a 750 or 800 CFM carb. Edelbrock recommends them for engines larger than 402 CID. I used a 600 on my small block Dodge van, and it was the best carb I ever dealt with, and I'v rebuilt and lived with a bunch.
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:47 PM   #24
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I am reading about the cam/intake reccomendations, If this engine is stock, you might contact your local chevy/ GM dealer with the engine block V.I.N. They will give you what your engine was built for, or what it originaly was in.

The block being 1/2 inch shorter between trucks and cars??? thats alot considering most tolerances are measured in thousands. Ussually when a block gets decked it is done the least amount to true it .010, .020, .030
but not more then .030. I cant imagine that considering even if it could be decked that far, you would loose 1/2 inch off your stroke, it would no longer be a 454, plus trying to fly cut the pistons, for valve clearence.

The cam also needs to be matched with the torque converter. If you want a quik drop in, maybe call "Schorlings", up in Toledo Ohio.

If you have the engine you want but want to tweak a little more out of it, maybe get your hands on a fuel injection set up, either edlebrock, or stock chevy. You will have a noticable gain.
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Old 04-25-2009, 06:53 PM   #25
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Terry, I'm not certain your speed/rpm readings apply to our 19.5 tires. Did your F250 sit on high rubber?

The engine drives the tranny, the tranny the rear end and then it's a matter of how many times it all has to turn the outside diameter of the wheel/tire.

The optimistic speedo rarely ranges beyond about 4-5 mph at the top. Ten would be an obvious error.
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:07 AM   #26
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Quote:
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The block being 1/2 inch shorter between trucks and cars??? thats alot considering most tolerances are measured in thousands. Ussually when a block gets decked it is done the least amount to true it .010, .020, .030 but not more then .030. I cant imagine that considering even if it could be decked that far, you would loose 1/2 inch off your stroke, it would no longer be a 454, plus trying to fly cut the pistons, for valve clearence.
Here is a quote from building a TALL DECK 496 stroke BBC - HybridZ

"Chevy has produced two common bbc block heights, the common pass car 9.8" deck block and the taller less common 10.2" truck block, truck blocks allow more clearance but they move the heads further apart so spacers or different intakes and a few other parts are necessary."

Quote:
The cam also needs to be matched with the torque converter. If you want a quik drop in, maybe call "Schorlings", up in Toledo Ohio.
This is something I hadn't heard before. I'm going to have to check into this. I'm not sure I'll be able to figure out what torque converter is currently installed in our Argosy.

Brad
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:12 AM   #27
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Terry,

I think Glen has the answer in that our tires are larger in diameter than normal which would make the difference.

Glen,

I haven't check it via our GPS yet so most likely its 68 mph like yours. I have checked it against those road side radar signs and when traveling 60 my speed matched what the radar sign indicated. Next time we head out I'll use the GPS and do a comparison.

I do agree with the 3000 rpm limit. I don't normally drive more than about 65 but this last trip we were lightly loaded and only had 45 miles to drive and it was getting late, so.........

Brad
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:25 AM   #28
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Quote:
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I didn't know Susan had started franchising...
Susan is VERY good at managing money, maybe you should let her manage yours....... .
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