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06-12-2016, 07:47 PM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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Dash air conditioner puzzle
Hi all,
The dash air conditioner on my 1996 30’ Airstream Cutter puts out only warm air.
I’m only learning about air conditioners now. I have a set of gauges and was preparing to take a first set of readings.
These are pictures of the top of the compressor; low pressure fitting on the left; high pressure fitting on the right; I think.
On the low pressure side, you can clearly see the core of the schrader valve.
On the high pressure side—where is it?
The weird thing is is that there are no threads to screw in the core.
What am I missing? Am I looking at the wrong fittings?
This is one of those elusive “Acme” air conditioning systems. So far, I haven’t been able to find any documentation.
Thanks,
David
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06-12-2016, 08:44 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,524
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You're looking at fittings for R-134a; they're different than the old R-12 threaded fittings. You can get adapters if you have the old style hoses.
__________________
"Between what matters and what seems to matter, how should the world we know judge wisely?" - E.C. Bentley, Trent's Last Case
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06-12-2016, 08:59 PM
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#3
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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I wasn't clear enough
Hi drboyd,
I guess I wasn't clear enough.
Yes, these are 134a fittings.
The threads I'm talking about are interior threads for the schrader core. There is no schrader core on the high pressure side and there are no threads to screw the core in.
I'm not talking about threads to screw on the test hoses. I have 134a hoses that just snap on.
David
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06-12-2016, 09:10 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,524
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If you're adding refrigerant, you dont really want to be on the high side anyway.
There could actually be a stop valve stem under those plastic caps....
__________________
"Between what matters and what seems to matter, how should the world we know judge wisely?" - E.C. Bentley, Trent's Last Case
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06-13-2016, 12:02 PM
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#5
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4 Rivet Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Lynnwood
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 311
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The system is open and thus, "contaminated." For a proper fix, you can't simply add freon to a contaminated system. It'll never work as intended.
Start by evacuating the AC system. To check for leaks, the system hasta hold 15 lbs of vacuum (negative PSI) for 15 minutes. Once your system can do that, then recharge system with freon.
Be sure to add dye. That way, you can check for leaks.
All of the above requires special equipment. Take it to a shop.
Tom
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06-13-2016, 02:56 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,524
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TomKirk is right, if the system is open. Try depressing the Schrader valve on the low side just a bit. If refrigerant hisses out enthusiastically, you can go ahead and recharge it. If nothing comes out, you're "hosed" (pun intended), and you would need a vacuum pump to do it right.
__________________
"Between what matters and what seems to matter, how should the world we know judge wisely?" - E.C. Bentley, Trent's Last Case
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06-13-2016, 04:36 PM
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#7
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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Hi guys,
I have a vacuum pump.
But I'm not that far yet. The system can't hold any refigerant because of the issue I explain.
Thanks,
David
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06-13-2016, 05:17 PM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
1991 25' Excella
Stanfield
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 317
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R-123a fittings are generic they sell repair kits for them high and low pressure side. The problem is your system is now contaminated and well need flushed and serviced. There is oil and freon in the system or in your cause there needs to be. Id take it to a shop with the correct tooling and experience. Otherwise it can get expensive in a hurry.
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06-13-2016, 07:41 PM
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#9
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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So I have an idea about what's going on:
Some high pressure ports don't use schrader valves; they use some kind of ball and gasket valve. And these are supposed to be highly susceptible to leaking.
I understand that these can be replaced with a schrader valve. Which would make sense to me since I have no idea about where to get test guages that would work on one of these ball valves.
And as SpletKay06 said, these are cheap and are easily replaced.
I will look into that soon.
David
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06-13-2016, 09:11 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,524
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Find a store specializing in automotive a/c parts. They will also have "system flush" fluid and oil to replace the oil that may have been lost.
__________________
"Between what matters and what seems to matter, how should the world we know judge wisely?" - E.C. Bentley, Trent's Last Case
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06-14-2016, 07:32 PM
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#11
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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Finding a new valve is turning out to be difficult. There doesn't seem to be any kind of generic valve. I've been to three auto stores and online, and everything seems to be for a specific make and model of auto. How to find a valve for a now defunct "Acme" system is, at the moment, beyond me.
David
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06-14-2016, 07:50 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1978 25' Tradewind
Metro Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,524
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How about getting the model number off the compressor and getting a new discharge fitting? Or, if you're cheap like me, scrounge another one at a salvage yard...
__________________
"Between what matters and what seems to matter, how should the world we know judge wisely?" - E.C. Bentley, Trent's Last Case
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06-15-2016, 08:33 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1982 31' Airstream 310
champaign
, Illinois
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,072
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06-15-2016, 10:23 AM
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#15
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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Hi all,
SpletKay06: this is not a converted system. See below.
drboyd: I'm such a dumbass! I never thought of looking for a model number! It's a Sanden 4653. It has 134a on the label. It also has "Ford" on the label. But the entire system is still built by "Acme". At least that's what it says in my motorhome's Owner's Handbook. The Handbook says nothing about the dash air conditioning except to contact Acme.
mayco: I've seen acmeairparts.com. One of the first things I did was email them. No response. I emailed them again. No response.
So I found the service guide for the compressor, but it says nothing about the ports. I could find nothing else online. I'll go back to the auto part stores. Maybe they can help me now.
To reiterate: I've had the schrader core on the low pressure side out and it had no pressure at all. I can't check the high pressure side because it doesn't have a schrader valve; it has some kind of ball valve, and the guages won't work on it. I also found that these ball valves are very prone to leaking. A few people stated that after disturbing them only a couple of times, they will leak. Some have said that they can be replaced with a schrader valve, so that is what I'm trying to do. I don't want to add expensive coolant for the sake of a valve that costs of few dollars. But I can't find it!
One more thing: when you turn on the air conditioner, the clutch never engages. That, of course, is a symptom of no pressure.
Thanks to all for your input.
David
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06-15-2016, 01:22 PM
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#16
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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The other possibility is that this is a schrader valve after all, but the threads have been stripped out by someone. Either way, it still has to be replaced.
I've been to auto stores again, and knowing the compressor doesn't help. The valves are part of the Acme designed system, not part of the compressor. I even went to an auto air conditioner shop, but he was no help. He just kept insisting I bring it in. If I wanted to just take it somewhere, I wouldn't even be on this forum. I'm trying to fix it myself. Taking it somewhere will be my last resort. I'm not there yet.
So my next move is to remove the part and then try to match it.
David
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06-15-2016, 01:47 PM
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#17
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Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
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David,
Have you tried calling Acme Air? I was trying to locate some vacuum servos and tried emailing them several times and finally tried calling. I think I left a message and he eventually returned my call. I think Acme Air is a sideline business so he may not devote a lot of time to it. This was several years ago so things may have changed.
You can 913-515-1560 with any questions, his name is Richard.
Good luck!
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
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06-16-2016, 01:59 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1982 31' International
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,706
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I am just kinda getting up to speed on automotive A/C myself, so I may be off base here but:
The valve you post the pic of should not leak, as one can close the service valve under the black cap in the pic.
To my knowledge this keeps the ball valve from leaking by effectively shutting it off with another valve.
Regards,
JD
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud;'82 31 International
'91 350 LE MH; '21 Interstate 24GT
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06-17-2016, 05:40 PM
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#19
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2 Rivet Member
1996 30' Cutter Bus
Lawrenceville
, New Jersey
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 30
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Hi all,
JD: I did remove the plastic caps, and it is another valve (see "1" in the picture). They were impossible to move. Just frozen. And even if I could turn these, my issue is still the same: I can't get a set of guages on these when the guages are meant for schrader valves.
So I still wanted to remove the whole valve assembly and then see if I could match it or replace it with something with schrader valves. So I put a wrench on "2" in the picture, and ...
... with little effort ...
... it snapped clean off (see "3" in the picture).
So now I have a bigger mess.
David
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06-17-2016, 06:23 PM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
1991 25' Excella
Stanfield
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 317
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That valve #1 is so you can remove the compressor without venting the whole system it's probably never been used. Even though its not a converted system the fitting should be swappable. Changed them often when I did ac professionally.
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