Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-06-2017, 01:06 PM   #1
Undereducated AS Newbie
 
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
Images: 5
Broken Starter Housing

As you can see by the pictures, I have a significant starter issue.

Parts house guy says motor locked up, mechanic next door agrees.

I'd never experienced this problem, got my pull handle & 3/4 deep well socket & turned the front crank (clockwise) a turn or two.

If crank turns, the motor isn't locked up...so...what caused this?

I'd rather not replace more than 1 starter.

Your ideas/suggestions are appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Starter1.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	42.9 KB
ID:	291474   Click image for larger version

Name:	Starter2.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	46.8 KB
ID:	291475  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Starter3.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	84.3 KB
ID:	291476   Click image for larger version

Name:	Starter4.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	26.3 KB
ID:	291477  

wimpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 01:22 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
It's possible the starter wasn't shimmed properly during installation.

Did the engine backfire while trying to start it?
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 01:33 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
jdalrymple's Avatar
 
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1982 31' International
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay , Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,706
I would agree with the backfire question.

Also wonder about a low battery voltage during crank (slower then normal crank speed) and when the engine started the bendix gear hung in the flywheel.


Regards,


JD
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud;'82 31 International
'91 350 LE MH; '21 Interstate 24GT


jdalrymple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 02:33 PM   #4
Undereducated AS Newbie
 
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Did the engine backfire while trying to start it?
No backfires, newly installed rebuilt Quadrajet. Had moved it to an exit from the storage lot, shut it off & went home for dinner. Came back to move it, cranked it, stopped (still getting used to pump the accelerator to set the choke) & resumed cranking after 20-30 second delay, the starter was broken then or just before as all I heard was the gear spinning without contact.
wimpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 02:48 PM   #5
Undereducated AS Newbie
 
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdalrymple View Post
Also wonder about a low battery voltage during crank (slower then normal crank speed) and when the engine started the bendix gear hung in the flywheel.
How would you determine the difference between slow & normal cranking speed?
wimpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 03:07 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
jdalrymple's Avatar
 
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1982 31' International
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay , Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,706
Did it sound like starter was cranking hard and normal, or like the batteries were low and about to die?

Several things going on here:

Had engine run with new carb?

Did the engine cough or try to fire during initial crank?



What normally breaks the end of the starter is either misalignment of the starter on the bell housing, kick back from the engine during cranking, or bendix hung after engine starts.

Regards,

JD
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud;'82 31 International
'91 350 LE MH; '21 Interstate 24GT


jdalrymple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 03:17 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
Go to AutoZone and get a lifetime rebuilt starter and see if that fixes it. Is the shaft on the starter also bent? A backfire could have caused this but I would think you would see other stuff bent as well. Could it have hydrolocked from fuel or water in the cylinders? I assume you drive this often and it is not something you found in a field?

Perry
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2017, 09:59 PM   #8
4 Rivet Member
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown , California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 424
I would second the Auto Zone starter and make sure you have the right bolts that are knurled for good alignment. Also GM put that brace that goes from the rear end of the starter to the block for a reason. If it's missing (and it usually is) get a new one soon. Were the bolts tight when you took the starter off?
ijustlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2017, 01:17 AM   #9
Undereducated AS Newbie
 
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdalrymple View Post
Did it sound like starter was cranking hard and normal, or like the batteries were low and about to die?
Had cranked right up 3 times after installing the rebuilt carb.

Several things going on here:

Had engine run with new carb? 4-5 minutes each time above.

Did the engine cough (NO) or try to fire during initial crank (no issues).
What normally breaks the end of the starter is either misalignment of the starter on the bell housing, kick back from the engine during cranking, or bendix hung after engine starts.
Bought & installed a reman Carquest Limited Lifetime warranty. Cranked, fired & started after 10 seconds.

We're running again...
wimpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2017, 05:50 AM   #10
Undereducated AS Newbie
 
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
Images: 5
R terminal wire

Looked up Youtube GM starter wiring. Shows a wire to the "R" terminal, my starter had the battery wire, a 12G wire to the "S" terminal and a 6G ground wire to a starter mounting bolt. Is there a need for the R terminal wire?
wimpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2017, 07:05 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by wimpy View Post
Looked up Youtube GM starter wiring. Shows a wire to the "R" terminal, my starter had the battery wire, a 12G wire to the "S" terminal and a 6G ground wire to a starter mounting bolt. Is there a need for the R terminal wire?
No, it's not used.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2017, 10:36 AM   #12
Undereducated AS Newbie
 
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte , North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijustlee View Post
Also GM put that brace that goes from the rear end of the starter to the block for a reason. If it's missing (and it usually is) get a new one soon. Were the bolts tight when you took the starter off?
Didn't have the brace, did have the knurled bolts & yes, the bolts were tight (probably 50-60 ft-lbs).

Where can I get the brace?
wimpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2017, 10:53 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
I have never seen a rear brace on any of my 454 Motorhomes.
Never had a starter housing crack either
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2017, 11:04 AM   #14
2 Rivet Member
 
2023 30' Flying Cloud
Garden City , Alabama
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 41
6.2 and 6.5 diesels used a starter brace. Might can adapt one. Being your starter has staggered mounting bolts I wouldn't worry about a brace. Only time I've ever broke the nose was the engine kicking back.
jake74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 12:48 PM   #15
4 Rivet Member
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown , California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 424
Always gone...

You might notice that the top bolt that holds the starter motor together has an extension stud sticking out. There is usually a nub cast on the block with a threaded hole that is even with where that stud ends up. The brace is a stamped slightly curved angle iron piece about 4" long and I don't think they have them at Chevy dealers for some reason. I've found them laying on the ground at junkyards in the GM section. I think about every older GM V8 had them from the factory. I always wondered why that stud was there on the starters until one day I changed the starter on something that still had the original starter, and there was that bracket! I guarantee GM didn't spend the extra 50 cents per vehicle for no reason, but they always get left off when the starter gets changed the first time. I wouldn't worry too much about it but if you stumble across one or keep breaking starters you could put one on.
ijustlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 12:58 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,115
This looks like the starter brace on my 454 powered Argosy.

Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 08:27 PM   #17
3 Rivet Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
1987 32.5' Airstream 325
Windsor , Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 170
Broken Starter Housing

I cracked mine trying to start with low voltage on my battery. Just barely cranking and "snap", new unit to boot.

Chris
realpank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 11:09 PM   #18
4 Rivet Member
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown , California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 424
Yep that be it! Hey realprank did your starter have the brace on when it broke? I'd say the end brace adds quite a bit of support but there is a heck of a lot of engines where they are missing and generally every things fine for a long time if the bolts are tight.. To me breaking the snout is a pretty rare thing and could be from a few different causes such as a thin casting or loose bolts but there were some blocks made where you need to shim the starter out to get proper tooth depth. If I broke a snout I'd check the tooth fit. I always put all the bolts and brackets back on too!
ijustlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 06:33 AM   #19
3 Rivet Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
1987 32.5' Airstream 325
Windsor , Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 170
No i don't think it did have the brace, pretty darned surprised, I had never seen it but the rebuild shop said he sees them from time to time. That's a big-ass motor
realpank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why do I carry a spare starter? PeterH-350LE Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 32 12-02-2009 05:39 AM
Help - starter solenoid ViewRVs Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 23 02-27-2004 07:58 PM
Portable Jump Starter joshua32064 Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 6 10-12-2003 12:13 PM
Starter heat problems ALANSD Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 0 02-15-2003 02:51 PM
Ode to a starter ALANSD Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 9 01-07-2003 10:55 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.