|
08-06-2017, 01:06 PM
|
#1
|
Undereducated AS Newbie
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
|
Broken Starter Housing
As you can see by the pictures, I have a significant starter issue.
Parts house guy says motor locked up, mechanic next door agrees.
I'd never experienced this problem, got my pull handle & 3/4 deep well socket & turned the front crank (clockwise) a turn or two.
If crank turns, the motor isn't locked up...so...what caused this?
I'd rather not replace more than 1 starter.
Your ideas/suggestions are appreciated.
|
|
|
08-06-2017, 01:22 PM
|
#2
|
Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
|
It's possible the starter wasn't shimmed properly during installation.
Did the engine backfire while trying to start it?
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
|
|
|
08-06-2017, 01:33 PM
|
#3
|
Rivet Master
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1982 31' International
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,706
|
I would agree with the backfire question.
Also wonder about a low battery voltage during crank (slower then normal crank speed) and when the engine started the bendix gear hung in the flywheel.
Regards,
JD
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud;'82 31 International
'91 350 LE MH; '21 Interstate 24GT
|
|
|
08-06-2017, 02:33 PM
|
#4
|
Undereducated AS Newbie
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler
Did the engine backfire while trying to start it?
|
No backfires, newly installed rebuilt Quadrajet. Had moved it to an exit from the storage lot, shut it off & went home for dinner. Came back to move it, cranked it, stopped (still getting used to pump the accelerator to set the choke) & resumed cranking after 20-30 second delay, the starter was broken then or just before as all I heard was the gear spinning without contact.
|
|
|
08-06-2017, 02:48 PM
|
#5
|
Undereducated AS Newbie
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdalrymple
Also wonder about a low battery voltage during crank (slower then normal crank speed) and when the engine started the bendix gear hung in the flywheel.
|
How would you determine the difference between slow & normal cranking speed?
|
|
|
08-06-2017, 03:07 PM
|
#6
|
Rivet Master
2009 27' FB Flying Cloud
1982 31' International
1991 35' Airstream 350
Jay
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,706
|
Did it sound like starter was cranking hard and normal, or like the batteries were low and about to die?
Several things going on here:
Had engine run with new carb?
Did the engine cough or try to fire during initial crank?
What normally breaks the end of the starter is either misalignment of the starter on the bell housing, kick back from the engine during cranking, or bendix hung after engine starts.
Regards,
JD
__________________
Jeff & Cindy
'09 27FB Flying Cloud;'82 31 International
'91 350 LE MH; '21 Interstate 24GT
|
|
|
08-06-2017, 03:17 PM
|
#7
|
Rivet Master
1981 31' Excella II
New Market
, Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
|
Go to AutoZone and get a lifetime rebuilt starter and see if that fixes it. Is the shaft on the starter also bent? A backfire could have caused this but I would think you would see other stuff bent as well. Could it have hydrolocked from fuel or water in the cylinders? I assume you drive this often and it is not something you found in a field?
Perry
|
|
|
08-06-2017, 09:59 PM
|
#8
|
4 Rivet Member
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 424
|
I would second the Auto Zone starter and make sure you have the right bolts that are knurled for good alignment. Also GM put that brace that goes from the rear end of the starter to the block for a reason. If it's missing (and it usually is) get a new one soon. Were the bolts tight when you took the starter off?
|
|
|
08-07-2017, 01:17 AM
|
#9
|
Undereducated AS Newbie
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdalrymple
Did it sound like starter was cranking hard and normal, or like the batteries were low and about to die?
Had cranked right up 3 times after installing the rebuilt carb.
Several things going on here:
Had engine run with new carb? 4-5 minutes each time above.
Did the engine cough (NO) or try to fire during initial crank (no issues).
What normally breaks the end of the starter is either misalignment of the starter on the bell housing, kick back from the engine during cranking, or bendix hung after engine starts.
|
Bought & installed a reman Carquest Limited Lifetime warranty. Cranked, fired & started after 10 seconds.
We're running again...
|
|
|
08-07-2017, 05:50 AM
|
#10
|
Undereducated AS Newbie
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
|
R terminal wire
Looked up Youtube GM starter wiring. Shows a wire to the "R" terminal, my starter had the battery wire, a 12G wire to the "S" terminal and a 6G ground wire to a starter mounting bolt. Is there a need for the R terminal wire?
|
|
|
08-07-2017, 07:05 AM
|
#11
|
Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wimpy
Looked up Youtube GM starter wiring. Shows a wire to the "R" terminal, my starter had the battery wire, a 12G wire to the "S" terminal and a 6G ground wire to a starter mounting bolt. Is there a need for the R terminal wire?
|
No, it's not used.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
|
|
|
08-19-2017, 10:36 AM
|
#12
|
Undereducated AS Newbie
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Charlotte
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 168
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijustlee
Also GM put that brace that goes from the rear end of the starter to the block for a reason. If it's missing (and it usually is) get a new one soon. Were the bolts tight when you took the starter off?
|
Didn't have the brace, did have the knurled bolts & yes, the bolts were tight (probably 50-60 ft-lbs).
Where can I get the brace?
|
|
|
08-19-2017, 10:53 AM
|
#13
|
Rivet Master
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia
, New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,082
|
I have never seen a rear brace on any of my 454 Motorhomes.
Never had a starter housing crack either
|
|
|
08-19-2017, 11:04 AM
|
#14
|
2 Rivet Member
2023 30' Flying Cloud
Garden City
, Alabama
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 41
|
6.2 and 6.5 diesels used a starter brace. Might can adapt one. Being your starter has staggered mounting bolts I wouldn't worry about a brace. Only time I've ever broke the nose was the engine kicking back.
|
|
|
08-20-2017, 12:48 PM
|
#15
|
4 Rivet Member
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 424
|
Always gone...
You might notice that the top bolt that holds the starter motor together has an extension stud sticking out. There is usually a nub cast on the block with a threaded hole that is even with where that stud ends up. The brace is a stamped slightly curved angle iron piece about 4" long and I don't think they have them at Chevy dealers for some reason. I've found them laying on the ground at junkyards in the GM section. I think about every older GM V8 had them from the factory. I always wondered why that stud was there on the starters until one day I changed the starter on something that still had the original starter, and there was that bracket! I guarantee GM didn't spend the extra 50 cents per vehicle for no reason, but they always get left off when the starter gets changed the first time. I wouldn't worry too much about it but if you stumble across one or keep breaking starters you could put one on.
|
|
|
08-20-2017, 12:58 PM
|
#16
|
Rivet Master
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond
, Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
|
This looks like the starter brace on my 454 powered Argosy.
Brad
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1975 24' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels & windows left to sell)
|
|
|
08-20-2017, 08:27 PM
|
#17
|
3 Rivet Member
Vintage Kin Owner
1987 32.5' Airstream 325
Windsor
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 170
|
Broken Starter Housing
I cracked mine trying to start with low voltage on my battery. Just barely cranking and "snap", new unit to boot.
Chris
|
|
|
08-20-2017, 11:09 PM
|
#18
|
4 Rivet Member
1973 31' Sovereign
Middletown
, California
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 424
|
Yep that be it! Hey realprank did your starter have the brace on when it broke? I'd say the end brace adds quite a bit of support but there is a heck of a lot of engines where they are missing and generally every things fine for a long time if the bolts are tight.. To me breaking the snout is a pretty rare thing and could be from a few different causes such as a thin casting or loose bolts but there were some blocks made where you need to shim the starter out to get proper tooth depth. If I broke a snout I'd check the tooth fit. I always put all the bolts and brackets back on too!
|
|
|
08-22-2017, 06:33 AM
|
#19
|
3 Rivet Member
Vintage Kin Owner
1987 32.5' Airstream 325
Windsor
, Ontario
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 170
|
No i don't think it did have the brace, pretty darned surprised, I had never seen it but the rebuild shop said he sees them from time to time. That's a big-ass motor
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
Similar Threads
|
Thread |
Thread Starter |
Forum |
Replies |
Last Post |
Why do I carry a spare starter?
|
PeterH-350LE |
Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... |
32 |
12-02-2009 05:39 AM |
Help - starter solenoid
|
ViewRVs |
Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... |
23 |
02-27-2004 07:58 PM |
Portable Jump Starter
|
joshua32064 |
Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters |
6 |
10-12-2003 12:13 PM |
Starter heat problems
|
ALANSD |
Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... |
0 |
02-15-2003 02:51 PM |
Ode to a starter
|
ALANSD |
Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... |
9 |
01-07-2003 10:55 AM |
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|