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Old 04-20-2008, 09:35 PM   #1
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Better MPG- Real or Scam?

Had the MO/HO at a local park the other day and was approached by a guy interested in my MPG. WE talked for awhile as he was trying to sell me this set-up that he installed on his car. I turned him down however when I got home I visited this web site that he had mentioned: Hydrogen Boost Brown’s Gas Joe Cell HHO Water Car Save fuel mpg</ and must admit its intriguing. This led me to another search here: http://water4gas.com Of course I'm skeptical but also hope its true. I'm in no way connected to these products just want to ask if any forum members have actually tried either of these set-ups on their MO/HO or tow vehicles. We are already getting ripped off at the pumps.
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:40 PM   #2
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Call me a skeptic, but this sounds waaay too good to be true.

Brian
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:43 PM   #3
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Read the guarantee,
"If you are not satisfied with the performance of the Hydrogen-Boost System purchased from our web site, you may return it undamaged within 30 days for a full refund. Unfortunately some components like engine treatment and wiring kit will be damaged upon installation and therefore non-returnable unless they are unused, uninstalled..."

So... you can return it if it doesn't work, but only if you didn't install it. Obviously if you didn't install it, you don't know that it didn't work so you can't return it.

Beyond that, I'd vote big time scam. Pyramid to boot, I think.
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Old 04-21-2008, 12:45 AM   #4
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What's that saying, if it sounds to good to be true......

I have heard somewhere a report on the hydrogen "generators" and it seemed to me the findings were they cannot make enough gas to measurably effect an engines performance. I found it interesting that they were leaning out the fuel/air mixture. There are sensors on the engine that monitor that and will pump more fuel in the cylinders based on engine load. Some of the fuel cools the engine especially under load so running to lean could burn valves and cause other harm to the engine.

I'll stick with it sounds to good to be true but I hope to be proved wrong.
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Old 04-21-2008, 06:51 AM   #5
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You might find this interesting:

Water as fuel

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Old 04-21-2008, 07:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSHED
....the Hydrogen-Boost System purchased from our web site, you may return it undamaged within 30 days for a full refund.
This kinda leaves out the fly-by-night vendor in a campground.

Brown's gas? Electrolysis requires electric power from your engine. Okay, burn gasoline (not 100% efficient), turn the crank shaft (more frictional loss), turn the alternator (not 100% efficient), use some of that current to split hydrogen from oxygen (not 100%...

You see where I'm going. They're selling a perpetual motion machine. Their literature says everything but "you'll need to stop every 100 miles to take created fuel out of your gas tank."
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:11 AM   #7
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I applaud this guy. He's not making spurious claims like the 'water as fuel" guy, he's just calling it Brown's Gas which has been around for decades.

If you follow his driving tips you it will probably get you 95% of the increased milage, even without installing the electrolyzer.

The downside is, you only get the driving tips if you buy the electorlyzer.

The upside is I'm pretty sure the same driving tips are available from your local AAA or your favorite mechanic.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:25 AM   #8
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sounds like another product from the manufacturers of snake oil, here's another one. PICC
any genuine product that could revolutionize the auto industry is quickly bought out by you know who.
on a side note, ever heard of wally minto Minto's Water Wheel Solar Generator another great invention in need of R & D $'s
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:32 AM   #9
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But hey -- at least the fuel is "all American." Good for foreign exchange!
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:41 AM   #10
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There are, as I understand it, several problems with the conventional internal combustion engine as far as fuel efficiency; the first two being the huge amounts of energy that are wasted as heat by-product and the other being the incomplete use of the fuel. If the waste heat could be better captured to generate the electricity to drive the electrolysis process in a fuel-cell, that would increase the efficiency of the fuel consumption. Secondly, any gains that can be made in the efficiency of the use of the raw fuel would obviously increase gas mileage.

Obviously, the most efficient way to deliver the fuel that can be completely burned is to deliver it atomized at flash point temperature to the cylinders. UNfortunately that means that an explosive mixture of fuel must be stored somewhere on board. However, since there's a way to make waste nuclear material transport bomb-proof, I'm relatively sure that someone could develop a pre-delivery system to make gasoline deliver to the cylinders at flash-point, and store it relatively safely immediately before delivery.

We live in interesting times, and it's comforting to know that there are folks out there who are at least experimenting with stuff. It's waaay beyond my ability, so I'm anxiously awaiting the next breakthrough.

In the mean time, I'm riding my bicycle to work!

Roger
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:04 AM   #11
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Quote:
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... I'm relatively sure that someone could develop a pre-delivery system to make gasoline deliver to the cylinders at flash-point, and store it relatively safely immediately before delivery...

Roger
I was involved on a program of that nature a couple of decades ago. I can comment that when someting goes wrong with a superheated fuel delivery system, it goes REALLy wrong
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Old 04-21-2008, 10:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 345bill
Had the MO/HO at a local park the other day and was approached by a guy interested in my MPG. WE talked for awhile as he was trying to sell me this set-up that he installed on his car. I turned him down however when I got home I visited this web site that he had mentioned: Hydrogen Boost Brown’s Gas Joe Cell HHO Water Car Save fuel mpg</ and must admit its intriguing. This led me to another search here: http://water4gas.com Of course I'm skeptical but also hope its true. I'm in no way connected to these products just want to ask if any forum members have actually tried either of these set-ups on their MO/HO or tow vehicles. We are already getting ripped off at the pumps.
Ahhhhh scam? Yeah you can put hydrogen into engine but it is not made to run on raw hydrogen. Hydrocarbons yes. 12 Volts is not enough to seperate the Hydorgen from the Oxygen in water. I am still looking into how much it takes. I cannot remember from high school exactly but I know it involved a transformer.

I have been looking into to an engine programmer. Dial down the power when not towing then back to stock when towing.
Right now all I can find is stuff to boost the power not lower it.
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
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...
I have been looking into to an engine programmer. Dial down the power when not towing then back to stock when towing....
That would be the rightmost of the pedals you have available.

For giggles, I took our car which normally is good for 30-33 mpg highway, and drove it to the next state like I would ride a bicycle on a looong ride.
Slow accelerations, not using the brake, allow speed to bleed off when going uphill, and allowing it to coast downhill. Very very gentle applications of power, in other words. Windows closed, A/C off.

The roads were pretty empty, allowing me to do this.

The net: 42.5 mpg.

Obviously, if there'd been much traffic, or if my family had been in the car things would have been different, but still, a 33% increase.
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Old 04-21-2008, 11:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSHED
That would be the rightmost of the pedals you have available.

For giggles, I took our car which normally is good for 30-33 mpg highway, and drove it to the next state like I would ride a bicycle on a looong ride.
Slow accelerations, not using the brake, allow speed to bleed off when going uphill, and allowing it to coast downhill. Very very gentle applications of power, in other words. Windows closed, A/C off.
My son has an older Honda Civic and we've talked a lot about how I get better mileage from my Civic than he does with his. Honda's have a sweet spot in regards to shift point, either for auto or standard transmissions. The key is to allow the automatics to do their shifts at an rpm no higher than 3,000. When you do that you really improve your gas mileage. It's all a matter of how hard you push that gas pedal. That's why I get 33-35 mpg and he gets 29 or 30.

I watch these guys who pull away from traffic lights like there is no tomorrow only to catch up with them at the next traffic light. They suck it down on the acceleration only to lose it further by hitting the brakes. Yeah, I have to stop too but I used a lot less gas getting up to speed than they did.

Jack
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