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Old 05-22-2008, 04:51 PM   #1
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Antifreeze in the oil supply

the other day i changed the oil on my new, erm '85 345 and sent off a sample of the old stuff to blackstonelabs.com for testing.

quote
"We found enough potassium and sodium in your sample to indicate the possibility of anti-freeze getting into the oil supply. Have you had to add any coolant lately? If so, you can be sure a problem exists.
Iron, copper, and lead all read above average, which shows a little excess wear at the bearings. At this point, copper is the only metal in the cautionary range. We suggest monitoring your coolant level and resampling in ~2,000-miles to see how your engine is doing. Universal averages for the 7.4L are based on an oil run of ~3,400 miles."

end quote

I had to add anti-freeze recently during a fluid check while on vacation.
How could this stuff get into the oil, aren't they suppose to follow two separate chambers?
btw. im somewhat mechanically challenged but do know the difference between whats supposed to go in where.

See attached for full report.
thanks all in advance
Attached Files
File Type: pdf D40391.pdf (22.8 KB, 77 views)
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:56 PM   #2
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Two words: "Head Gasket"

A betting person would surmise that your head gasket is leaking. That allows fluids normally separated to mix. In my somewhat lmited experience, that's the most usual way that antifreeze gets into the oil. In any event, it needs to be attended to pretty quickly before it becomes a wholesale leak, which puts water into the crankcase, thus into bearings, onto cylinder walls, etc.

Good luck!
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Old 05-22-2008, 04:59 PM   #3
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Headgasket! Unless your setup includes a heatexchanger for engine oil cooling.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:00 PM   #4
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I'm not sure which engine that has, but generally there are a couple of ways come to mind right off, neither of them are good news.
You are right that they should be seperate systems.
A crack in the block, a blown head gasket or a cracked head may all produce a crossover in fluids.
Is the oil getting enough coolant in it to look milky?
Dave
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:14 PM   #5
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Head Gasket

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Old 05-22-2008, 05:15 PM   #6
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Look at your exhaust when idleing. White puffy smoke is bad. I had a 454 in mine that had serious overheating issues and cracked the passenger side exhaust manifold twice before I changed to headers. When this engine overheats it can warp the head enough to let antifreeze in to the oil. Most will burn off and the head seals again when the motor cools. When you first start it up do you hear a ticking noise on the passenger side? As it warms up the ticking goes away untill it gets really hot? If so, you have a cracked exhaust manifold and possibly a warped head, more likely a blown head gasket. I put headers on mine and a manual fan in front of the radiator. Good Luck!
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:22 PM   #7
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We have several antique cars that we do all the mechanicing on. Coolant in the Oil means one of two things, a cracked engine block or a blown head gasket. The latter is the preferable cause.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:02 PM   #8
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It may not be as bad as you think, I hope. It could be the oil cooler in the radiator, or maybe the intake manifold gasket has developed a leak. Both are not uncommon in that engine.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:09 PM   #9
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Im wiff Ryan HEAD Gasket First Then suspect a cracked head. You had anti-frezze in it so I wouldn't worry about a cracked block,unless U have run it out of water. You know Id suspect and intake manifold gasket also. I would seekout a not only a competant mechinac but a mechinac who is good at dignoseing things so it dont cost U and arm and one of your legs and a bunch of parts U really don't need.
Best of Luck To U
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:27 PM   #10
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Most likely a head gasket and will be an expensive fix unless you are a DIY'er.

You can always try "Liquid Glass". Many will not agree since this is a work around but I have used it on tractors and an older Ford with good results.

Garry
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:41 PM   #11
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Rivet Ditto on the Head Gasket

Head gasket is my first guess too, although the intake gaskets are also good suspects. Cracked head or block is really worst case scenario. I have seen a 289 Ford years ago that had an aluminum timing gear cover that served as the back of the water pump. A hole had corroded in it allowing massive leakage into the sump. The high pressures involved, the owner was a drag racer, homogenized the oil and water. He drained about 8 gallons of a creamy white mixture from a 6 quart oil pan.
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Old 05-22-2008, 07:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vswingfield
Head gasket is my first guess too, although the intake gaskets are also good suspects. Cracked head or block is really worst case scenario. I have seen a 289 Ford years ago that had an aluminum timing gear cover that served as the back of the water pump. A hole had corroded in it allowing massive leakage into the sump. The high pressures involved, the owner was a drag racer, homogenized the oil and water. He drained about 8 gallons of a creamy white mixture from a 6 quart oil pan.
The Ford 3.0 "U" engine used in Taurus, Ranger, and Aerostar also had a water pump issue. The impeller would wear a hole in the timing cover, and all the water from the cooling system would end up in the crankcase. Unfortunately the 7.4 engine does not have this feature, so that can't be the problem.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:01 PM   #13
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compression check

When doing a compression check you can check out the plugs as well. You can tell how each cylinder is burning. The curb side rear is the least cooled cylinder. How long have you had this MH? How is the power under a good load? Ever overheat on you? This problem doesn't sound terminal--nothing that can't be fixed if it is diagnosed correctly. Good Luck
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:33 PM   #14
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Rivet Absolutely Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63
The Ford 3.0 "U" engine used in Taurus, Ranger, and Aerostar also had a water pump issue. The impeller would wear a hole in the timing cover, and all the water from the cooling system would end up in the crankcase. Unfortunately the 7.4 engine does not have this feature, so that can't be the problem.
Hi Terry,

Once again you are absolutely correct. I know the 454 very well.

My point was that sometimes water/coolant gets in from very strange sources. I should have made that clearer. You should have been there when we were draining all that stuff out, though. It was a dark cream color and about the consistency of ranch dressing.

I once tracked an elusive coolant leak into the oil (enough to start a slight creamy tint to the oil) on a Perkins diesel on an International Harvester combine into the oil by putting packets of red dye into the coolant like the leak finder R12 you saw in the past. Found a crack around a core-casting plug (aka “freeze plug”) in the head under the valve cover. Required shipping a new head in from England. It was also a long way up the thing to lug that head.

Thanks for clarifying that the leak on a 454 (It will take me a long time to refer to them as metric. On newer engines, ok. I call my F150 a 5.4.) could not have come from the water pump.
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