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Old 09-17-2012, 08:38 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
This is where I get a little confused (ok, maybe a lot confused!)

The arrangement of the air ride springs, i.e. one end cut off, leads me to think that the spring really doesn't have much to do with overall ride quality. To me the springs seem to me more like connecting rods to hold the axle in the correct fore/aft alignment and for the axle to have something to connect to.

I say this because of the air ride arrangement is very similar to the rear axle arrangement for a Triumph Spitfire. The Spitfire axle is a swing axle arrangement where the outer end of the axle is connected to to a rod that runs forward to a body/frame mount. The axles are connected to a diff in the center with a traverse spring providing suspension. The air bags on the 345 act like the traverse spring and the leaf springs on the 345 act like the tie rods on the Spitfire. I might be over simplifying this but I don't know.

Maybe the worst case is I could cut the Argosy axles like the 345 which means I have the same springs with an air ride suspension thrown in.

Brad
What set up is on the 34.5? Is it the same ACS set up shown in cmadmaxman's pictures? If the answer is yes then the change over should be fairly easy. On mine you can see where they burned the back of the springs off with a torch, didn't even grind the slag off. Weld the "spring stirrup" on the spring and mount the cross members and you are 90% there.

Good luck, Dan
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:10 PM   #72
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...Maybe the worst case is I could cut the Argosy axles like the 345 which means I have the same springs with an air ride suspension thrown in.

Brad
I actually meant cut the Argosy springs not axles
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:16 PM   #73
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What set up is on the 34.5? Is it the same ACS set up shown in cmadmaxman's pictures? If the answer is yes then the change over should be fairly easy. On mine you can see where they burned the back of the springs off with a torch, didn't even grind the slag off. Weld the "spring stirrup" on the spring and mount the cross members and you are 90% there.
Dan,

I believe it is the same as in the pictures provided by cmadmaxman. I'll have to crawl under the 345 tomorrow to make sure.

They left the springs on the 345 and our 310 with the same slag. Sloppy workmanship if you ask me.

As much as I would like to use the rear disc brakes from the 345 I'm pretty sure there would be no way to move them over to the Argosy without a lot of work and probably expense so I would stay with the Argosy axle.

I think I just need to spend a bunch of time underneath both motorhomes, take lots of pictures and measurements. The tale of the tape is what I need now

Thanks!

Brad
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:09 PM   #74
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Dan,

I believe it is the same as in the pictures provided by cmadmaxman. I'll have to crawl under the 345 tomorrow to make sure.

They left the springs on the 345 and our 310 with the same slag. Sloppy workmanship if you ask me.

As much as I would like to use the rear disc brakes from the 345 I'm pretty sure there would be no way to move them over to the Argosy without a lot of work and probably expense so I would stay with the Argosy axle.

I think I just need to spend a bunch of time underneath both motorhomes, take lots of pictures and measurements. The tale of the tape is what I need now

Thanks!

Brad
Brad I'd be tempted to swap the rear axles. As I understand the disc brake axle is heavier than the drum brake axle, larger axle tubes maybe bigger bearings etc. It also probably has fewer miles than the Argosy, 12 years newer. You would need the trans tail shaft and parking brake and master cylinder. It would be a bit of work but you would have a sweet set up and a head start on the air bag suspension. With the work you've already done on the two coaches it doesn't seem like the time to start taking the easy way out.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:30 AM   #75
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Brad I'd be tempted to swap the rear axles. As I understand the disc brake axle is heavier than the drum brake axle, larger axle tubes maybe bigger bearings etc. It also probably has fewer miles than the Argosy, 12 years newer. You would need the trans tail shaft and parking brake and master cylinder. It would be a bit of work but you would have a sweet set up and a head start on the air bag suspension. With the work you've already done on the two coaches it doesn't seem like the time to start taking the easy way out.

Cheers, Dan
Dan,

I've thought about that but two things concern me. I think the gear ratio for the 345 is going to be a lot different (taller) than for the smaller 20' Argosy (shorter) and the hubs are 10 bolt on the 345 and 8 bolt on the Argosy. The bolt pattern might not be to hard to over come but the gear ration is a whole different matter.

I don't necessarily want to take the easy way out but I also don't want to tear into a differential either. More things to have to figure out.

Decisions, decisions

Brad
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:44 AM   #76
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Dan,

I've thought about that but two things concern me. I think the gear ratio for the 345 is going to be a lot different (taller) than for the smaller 20' Argosy (shorter) and the hubs are 10 bolt on the 345 and 8 bolt on the Argosy. The bolt pattern might not be to hard to over come but the gear ration is a whole different matter.

I don't necessarily want to take the easy way out but I also don't want to tear into a differential either. More things to have to figure out.

Decisions, decisions

Brad
I think most of the longer rigs have 4:56 gears with the 19.5" wheels. I don't have a clue what the Argosy might have for gears. With the small block they might use the 4:56 also. I wonder if you could use the same upper and lower ball joints and just swap the spindles. Then you could run the 10 bolt 19.5's all the way around. As long as you have gone this far you might as well just drop the Cummins in it.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:46 AM   #77
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I think most of the longer rigs have 4:56 gears with the 19.5" wheels. I don't have a clue what the Argosy might have for gears. With the small block they might use the 4:56 also. I wonder if you could use the same upper and lower ball joints and just swap the spindles. Then you could run the 10 bolt 19.5's all the way around. As long as you have gone this far you might as well just drop the Cummins in it.
I'm hoping the Argosy has 4:10 gears but at this point I really don't know.

This weekend I plan on taking a bunch of pictures of the Argosy and 345 front & rear suspensions and do some comparisons. I'm not sure I want to put 19.5 wheels on the Argosy. We only have two of the aluminum Alcoa wheels left which means I would need to run steel 19.5 wheels.

As for the Cummins, let's just say I would love to do it but with an new 454 sitting on the engine stand it probably won't happen

Regardless, it's a fun project to think about and I'll keep trying to make a little progress here and there to keep the project moving forward.



Brad
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #78
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Finally got around to removing the old airbags. What a pain to get to the 2 bolts from the top.Then we had to rotate the bag to unscrew it from the air fitting. Did not see any other way to do that. Any suggestions from someone who has done this?
Now to get the new ones installed....
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:32 PM   #79
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The center stud should be installed on the bench using locktide. After its tightened a sleeve and another nut needs to be tightened down. Then we held the airfitting with some good pliers and carefully turned the new bag onto the thread as tight as it would go while lining up the upper 2 bolt holes with the airbag threads at the same time. Make sure you use a fair amount of white plumbers/air fitting tape on your air supply thread.
My good friend Joe, who helped me with this just told me to mention: make sure you have someone that is very agile, has small hand with a lot of strength and doesn't mind to get dirty and use a damn power washer next time to wash off some dirt prior to the party...
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:14 AM   #80
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The center stud should be installed on the bench using locktide. After its tightened a sleeve and another nut needs to be tightened down. Then we held the airfitting with some good pliers and carefully turned the new bag onto the thread as tight as it would go while lining up the upper 2 bolt holes with the airbag threads at the same time. Make sure you use a fair amount of white plumbers/air fitting tape on your air supply thread.
My good friend Joe, who helped me with this just told me to mention: make sure you have someone that is very agile, has small hand with a lot of strength and doesn't mind to get dirty and use a damn power washer next time to wash off some dirt prior to the party...
I'm not trying to be difficult but out of curiosity is there a reason you can't just use a bolt of the proper length on the bottom? It just seems like less hassle then studs and sleeves and double nuts and such.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:48 AM   #81
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I'm not trying to be difficult but out of curiosity is there a reason you can't just use a bolt of the proper length on the bottom? It just seems like less hassle then studs and sleeves and double nuts and such.

Cheers, Dan
Yeah, you would think, but the stud actually screws in a thread of the upper portion of the airbag assembly and the sleeve and nut holds the lower and upper together.
See post #60
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:33 AM   #82
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Yeah, you would think, but the stud actually screws in a thread of the upper portion of the airbag assembly and the sleeve and nut holds the lower and upper together.
See post #60
I guess I must be dense because I'm having a hard time seeing it. Not a big deal. If I have to replace my bags someday hopefully I will be able to figure it out.

Cheers. Dan
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:50 AM   #83
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I guess I must be dense because I'm having a hard time seeing it. Not a big deal. If I have to replace my bags someday hopefully I will be able to figure it out.

Cheers. Dan
That makes two of us, I didn't get it until I took them apart..
That's the reason for my signature
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:56 PM   #84
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Rear air bags

Here are some pictures of rear air bags that came out of Jim's 1990 Airstream 300.

Quote:
They looked good on the outside and showed no signs of leakage, but they sure weren't going to make it across the country.
I guess the old phrase "Don't judge a book by its cover" applies here!
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