Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-12-2015, 09:03 AM   #29
Rivet Master
 
choctawmel's Avatar

 
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
choctaw , Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 576
Images: 1
Yeah, it can be done.... BUT.
My problem now is the 454 has run like crap every sense it was rebuilt in Las Cruses this last January. Now it's got all the evidence of another inlet valve failure. AGAIN!!!
I just the other day pulled the 454.... AGAIN. Got to get to tearing it down. Maybe it's some thing simple. I'm thinking I'll put the bigger angle valves and valve spring locks because the springs are heavier with the roller cam. Something I should of used when I first rebuilt it
I'm actively looking for a 12 valve Cummings. if I can find one before the end of the month, I'll look at the 454 next year.
Need to get going on this think one way or the other in time to get out of Oklahoma before winter.
If all else fails, I know where a 1954 Spartan trail is that would be a fun project.
__________________

__________________
choctawmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2015, 09:53 AM   #30
Agent 86
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,364
Images: 11
454 to Cummins

A swap is always complicated.

A 454 in stock form is a good engine, but as I recall the motor that blew in Las Cruces was a stroker. Was the replacement a stroker too?

If I were you I would consider buying a NEW engine from GM or building a strong stock displacement 454 with pre 78 heads on it. (A Mark IV not a Mark V). No "hot rod" stuff, just the early oval port heads, such an engine can easily make 400 hp dependably.


Brevi tempore!
__________________

__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2015, 07:09 AM   #31
Rivet Master
 
choctawmel's Avatar

 
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
choctaw , Oklahoma
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 576
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan View Post
A swap is always complicated.

A 454 in stock form is a good engine, but as I recall the motor that blew in Las Cruces was a stroker. Was the replacement a stroker too?

If I were you I would consider buying a NEW engine from GM or building a strong stock displacement 454 with pre 78 heads on it. (A Mark IV not a Mark V). No "hot rod" stuff, just the early oval port heads, such an engine can easily make 400 hp dependably.


Brevi tempore!
The Les Cruces rebuild was about the same engine only 0.010" (0.040 over) more bore w/new pistons, rings, bearing, one valve and valve lock.
Have old racing buddy that built the same motor for his truck (only carb not TBI) has driven for years pulling BIG race car trailer. Was very happy with it(I thought). Was out in his neck of the woods and stopped by to talked to him about my gas engine. Well he has a 12 valve Cummins in that truck now.
Rebuild what I have? (third time be a charm?) Crate motor? Pre-1978 build? 12 valve Cummins?
Think I'll load up my ICE trike (my other RV)and go for a week long bicycle tour
__________________
choctawmel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2015, 08:20 AM   #32
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,646
Mel,

You've put a heck of a lot of blood, sweat, cash and maybe some sleepless nights into this project. This swap is way beyond anything I have first hand knowledge of, other than enjoying owning a 12V for about 8 years.

It was wrapped in a Dodge of course but that engine has magic poured right in to the castings. And it sings that 12V song like nothing else.

Its born to pull, has no clue what high RPM's are. Keep clean fuel in it, don't overheat it and it should serve you well. Didn't I say I have never done a swap like this?

This is a front engine setup right? Ever consider dropping in a 12V and its best friend the 5 speed NV4500 handshaker?

Good luck.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Carslile Actuator, Equal-i-zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2015, 07:45 PM   #33
Agent 86
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,364
Images: 11
My only real point is a 454, same engine otherwise, with pre 78 big port oval port engine makes about 400 HP, where a post 78 "peanut port" engine makes about 200 HP.

The easiest way to power with these engines is early model heads. A stroker with late heads is like a world class athlete forced to breath through a straw.

Cummins is a great engine, I will be doing a swap on something because I fell into one cheap a couple of weeks ago. I have done lots of engine swaps, what I can tell you is that a swap will ALWAYS have a lot of details to iron out. They are NEVER as simple as they seem on paper. Never.

Your RV will benefit greatly from your proposed swap, just be prepared to iron out a lot of details to achieve a nicely finished product.

My other point is that a nicely done 454 not too far from stock makes a great tow engine too. I have built a lot of them.


Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2015, 09:08 AM   #34
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,646
Not an engine builder at all but seems like Mel's issues have been keeping something running not having to push it from behind going up a hill.

Buy an old 12V complete with the truck, take what you need and get creative. Just feed it lots of air, 12vdc and #2 in the tank.

Good luck Mel.
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Carslile Actuator, Equal-i-zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 10:56 AM   #35
Rivet Loser
 
Punch's Avatar
 
La Ronge , Saskatchewan
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 328
On another thread there's a discussion of Classics running hot. Now we're talking about how you can get so much power out of a 454.... power = heat, people, if the stock 454 (which has puh-lenty power for even the 345) overheats, what do people imagine will happen to an engine that, however it is done, develops more bhp? Common sense needs to have a voice please, not just testosterone.

A 5.9 Cummins is a great engine, but your Cummins will only cruise comfortably at 60 (which is fine if you don't like 70, which I do) and will be verrrrry noiiiiiiisy doing it, and if you thrash your Cummins to get more mph, your mpg will start to disappoint you and you'll be switching the hearing aid OFF.

I am sure nobody will disagree with either of my comments......
__________________
Bob
1989 345LE
Punch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 12:05 PM   #36
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,646
Punch,

Yup they rattle. It's their music. But isn't cruising RPM the real issue not MPH and that question requires knowing final drive ratio etc.

I don't even have a clue if you cold shove one in there.

Mel has a lot of pondering ahead.
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Carslile Actuator, Equal-i-zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2015, 12:47 PM   #37
Agent 86
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,364
Images: 11
454 to Cummins

The final drive ratio is one of those "details" that cost as I mentioned above....

Transmission adaptation or computer control of a Dodge unit is another one of those details that cost money, time, and aggravation.

Swapping was easier before the era of "computer everything".

I was considering swapping a Cummins in the place of a blown Duramax in an 05 Chevy I own, but it is too cumbersome, it will be going into a 67 GMC instead.

There will be issues to overcome, but not near as many.



Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 10:53 AM   #38
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,646
No facts again, sorry. But I bet the old 12 valve engines didn't need a computer.
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Carslile Actuator, Equal-i-zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 11:26 AM   #39
Agent 86
 
J. Morgan's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton , Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,364
Images: 11
454 to Cummins

No they don't need a computer, but any reliable automatic transmission that will bolt straight on the engine does need a computer.

Count on dishing out a grand for the aftermarket computer and wiring harness or a grand for a transmission adapter to make the Turbo 400 work.

Then we have to deal with the fact that the Turbo 400 is vacuum modulated....

Brevi tempore!
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......

J. Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 04:55 PM   #40
Rivet Master

 
Currently Looking...
1995 36' Classic 36
boulder , Colorado
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 715
The12 valve has no computer. Purely mechanical injection. The Allison MD3060 that a lot of them were coupled to has a transmission controller. It pretty easy to deal with. The only interface to the engine is the throttle position sensor. Shifting is done through a keypad. No cables or shift linkage.
__________________
Kota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2015, 06:37 PM   #41
Slide Out Society #001
 
GCinSC2's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,646
Well we ain't heard from Mel lately. But just to keep the pondering going, skip the whole automatic issue, go manual. NV4500 or the 6 speed NV5600. Nothing but a backup light.

I saw a Greyhound conversion bus and as built they managed to control a rear drive manual transmission power train from the front of the bus. Stick and clutch.
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Carslile Actuator, Equal-i-zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook.
GCinSC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2015, 08:13 AM   #42
Rivet Master

 
Currently Looking...
1995 36' Classic 36
boulder , Colorado
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Well we ain't heard from Mel lately. But just to keep the pondering going, skip the whole automatic issue, go manual. NV4500 or the 6 speed NV5600. Nothing but a backup light.

I saw a Greyhound conversion bus and as built they managed to control a rear drive manual transmission power train from the front of the bus. Stick and clutch.

I think that would be a giant step backwards. I really like the Allison MD3060. I think it takes a lot of the fatigue out of those long days.
__________________

__________________
Kota is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
late 454 vs early 454 & 400 vs 4L80E gbell Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 11 10-02-2014 06:14 PM
To Cummins or Not to Cummins?? Help!! On the brink! big_john Tow Vehicles 33 03-23-2010 09:20 PM
First impressions of my new Dodge/Cummins tow vehicle idahosafari Tow Vehicles 14 04-17-2004 09:31 AM
Will 2000 Dodge RAM 2500 with Cummins 5.9L tow A/S well? idahosafari Tow Vehicles 23 03-11-2004 03:34 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.