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Old 01-11-2016, 02:48 PM   #85
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A few thoughts to add...

My TBI conversion will be done BECAUSE my rig will most likely not pass smog now, nor in the future without ongoing cost and effort that will exceed swapping to TBI now. California allows an "Engine Swap", as long as it is from a later vehicle that has better/lower emissions and standards. As I have all the ownership paperwork, I am told they will accept this, but I still have some outstanding questions and concerns.

My donor blew away the last smog test I did with it.
It had 5 year old plugs and wires, and a 50k old Magnaflow aftermarket cat.



My plan is to use all of the actual parts that were on it.

Here is the underhood emissions sticker I plan to use as reference.
Unfortunately I was unable to "Peel it off".


Note the vacuum hose and diagram, as well as the statement on the lower LH side that states this is a "Heavy Duty California Emissions 1987 Vehicle".
I hope that will do it when the Smog Referee does his inspection.

Looking at the emission hose diagram, I note that the charcoal canister has a pipe that goes to the fuel tank. I have no vapor connections on my sender... so I am hoping a T into the fuel filler breather will be acceptable. I know that they test the tank for pressure retension as well as the cap. I know my tank is currently airstight, juding by the air pressure rush when I remove the locking cap... which came from teh Suburban also!
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:01 PM   #86
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Steve, are you actually going to change the motor or just the TBI and emissions components?

I would think you should be able to tap into the tank anywhere as long as the pressure is retained.

I'm glad I don't have to deal with all that emissions BS!
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:32 PM   #87
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"Officially" I will be changing the engine from the Suburban, into the Airstream....
Both were/are 4 bolt, peanut port 454's.
The engine that is currently in the Airstream is a 7,000 mile old Jasper Replacement. The Suburban has been gone 8/9 months, so it should have been stripped and crushed by now.... so there is no way to tie engine numbers to one or the other... if you follow my thinking.
This should fly.
I agree with you on the vapor line, but I just am trying to get everything clear in my mind. I think I will place the Vapor Canister on the drivers side somewhere, as it was there on the Suburban, low, outboard of the radiator. The "vapor line" will be probably be a steel line for 95% of the length, routed along the drivers side chassis rail, with just flex lines to connect.
I like the idea of the surge tank, as it solves my concern about the HP pump placement, and wire length, and simplifies my install. I can leave my rear LP electric pump and wiring untouched. I doubt it will impact the Emissions or be checked. Where I will mount it will dictated by the stock TBI SS flex pipes, which come up from the pass side rail.
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Old 01-11-2016, 05:20 PM   #88
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In lieu of the hard pipe for the canister you might consider the hard plastic tubing that is typically used. It's strong, seems to last for ever and should be more forgiving during installation.

Just a thought...
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:06 PM   #89
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Here's an update as to what's happening on the TBI front.

I've made the decision to not use Affordable Fuel Injection and am instead will be doing it piece meal. Yep, that's a totally different direction than I had been planing

But after much discussion with a couple of people I think I have a path forward that will work for me. I will be working with someone in Washington State who has done 454/4L80e conversions before. He's been guiding me through the list of parts I need for my particular application and will be doing the tuning once I get the engine running.

Below is a list of components for a TBI conversion based on a 1994 GM TBI system that I will building.

Throttle Body with Injectors (FI9403)
ECM - 16197427 (with correct memcal for 7.4L & 4L80e)
Harness - customized for my application (i.e. doghouse installation)
Throttle body adapter plate
External high pressure fuel pump
Surge tank
External low pressure high volume fuel pump
Distributor - ECM controlled
Map sensor (and bracket)
Coolant sensor
Coil (and bracket)
O2 sensor - narrow band
O2 sensor - wide band
Knock sensor (if my block supports a knock sensor)
VSSB - (calibrated to match my diff ratio and tire circumference)



So far I have the ECM and VSSB. Later this month I'll start ordering the other parts. The 4L80e comes back from the shop next Saturday so I need to make sure I can pay for it before buying more parts

Brad
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:20 PM   #90
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Sweet.
I will be a bit behind you...
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Old 01-15-2016, 06:42 PM   #91
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Steve, need a measurement if you can get it.

On the 454 block at the bottom of the valley where the intake manifold sits I need a measurement from that point to the plane where the carburetor bolts to the intake.

With the Edelbrock Performer intake on mine that number is approximately 5-1/2".

I'm trying to verify top of air cleaner to doghouse cover.

Thanks!
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Old 01-15-2016, 07:22 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Peter, I'll see what they have to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
"Whilst" you talk to them, could you find out what brand of wide band O2 Sensor they recommend.
I have Innovate Bosch LC1 version, which is now absolute and was replaced by LC2 .
Peter, never got that information from them. I'll ask the guy that's helping me to see if he has an opinion on the subject.

I know he has recommended this one from AEM for my system.
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Old 01-15-2016, 08:40 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Here's an update as to what's happening on the TBI front.

I've made the decision to not use Affordable Fuel Injection and am instead will be doing it piece meal. Yep, that's a totally different direction than I had been planing

But after much discussion with a couple of people I think I have a path forward that will work for me. I will be working with someone in Washington State who has done 454/4L80e conversions before. He's been guiding me through the list of parts I need for my particular application and will be doing the tuning once I get the engine running.

Below is a list of components for a TBI conversion based on a 1994 GM TBI system that I will building.

Throttle Body with Injectors (FI9403)
ECM - 16197427 (with correct memcal for 7.4L & 4L80e)
Harness - customized for my application (i.e. doghouse installation)
Throttle body adapter plate
External high pressure fuel pump
Surge tank
External low pressure high volume fuel pump
Distributor - ECM controlled
Map sensor (and bracket)
Coolant sensor
Coil (and bracket)
O2 sensor - narrow band
O2 sensor - wide band
Knock sensor (if my block supports a knock sensor)
VSSB - (calibrated to match my diff ratio and tire circumference)



So far I have the ECM and VSSB. Later this month I'll start ordering the other parts. The 4L80e comes back from the shop next Saturday so I need to make sure I can pay for it before buying more parts

Brad
Brad, here is a detailed list of the items used in the Holley Commander TBI.
They even included pictures for very item on the following page, in case you may need something specific. Items 1,2 and 3 are the Throttle Body, the ECU and the software
Questions:
why are you planning on running both a narrow band and wide band O2 sensor?
Why are you using an external coil ?
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Old 01-15-2016, 09:20 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
Brad, here is a detailed list of the items used in the Holley Commander TBI.
They even included pictures for very item on the following page, in case you may need something specific. Items 1,2 and 3 are the Throttle Body, the ECU and the software
Is your distributor is ECM controlled?

Quote:
Questions:
why are you planning on running both a narrow band and wide band O2 sensor?
Actually I'm still a little confused by the O2 sensor arrangement and am waiting for some clarification. When I find out I'll post the info.

Quote:
Why are you using an external coil ?
The distributor is ECM controlled to adjust timing and apparently uses an external coil.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:02 PM   #95
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Is your distributor is ECM controlled?.
Yes, totally. When I get a chance i will post a picture and more details about the distributor. It does have the coil on top like the stock distributor. It was not part of the Holley package, the PO upgraded to this distributor after the fact.
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Old 01-16-2016, 07:30 PM   #96
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Yes, totally. When I get a chance i will post a picture and more details about the distributor. It does have the coil on top like the stock distributor. It was not part of the Holley package, the PO upgraded to this distributor after the fact.
That's the setup I used. Got the coil/bracket off and 350.

As for the o2's? I have the same question..... Why 2?

Who's burning your POM? That was the biggest problem I had, getting the POM right. Why I spent $1300 for the programmable CPU.

mel
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:22 PM   #97
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Interesting...
My '87 has the coil separate.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:50 PM   #98
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That's the setup I used. Got the coil/bracket off and 350.

As for the o2's? I have the same question..... Why 2?
Next time I talk to him I'll ask about the configuration of the sensors. It's entirely possible I misunderstood his response to my initial question.

Quote:
Who's burning your POM? That was the biggest problem I had, getting the POM right. Why I spent $1300 for the programmable CPU.

mel
A guy in Washington State is doing the programming. I'm going to buy a burner so he just has to send me the updates via email. Just yesterday I was able to buy an NOS prom that is configured for a 1994 P-30 454 with 4L80e. That should get all of the parameters fairly close which I would think will help a lot.

Since I'm going to be running the engine on the test stand prior to putting it in the chassis he's going to send me a prom that has a bunch of stuff disabled since I won't have it available on the test stand, like the transmission signals, etc.
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