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Old 01-06-2016, 05:25 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
Looks right to me. The EFI pump would of course still have to be mounted at the lowest point of the surge tank or even below it, since those high pressure pumps are gravity fed push only. My 310 just has the regular 4-5 psi run of the mill fuel pump right by the fuel tank in front of a big fran type fuel filter. The EFI pump never runs the surge tank out of fuel. The next fuel filter (metal) is located just passed the EFI pump. Some people like to install another smaller micron filter before the surge tank, I just don't care for the inline glass ones (or plastic, like some people have laying on their intake manifold)
The PO also installed a switch to "prime" the surge tank (and another switch to prime the generator) I find the surge tank priming unnecessary, since all you need to do is turn the ignition on to run the rear fuel pump.
Another must carry item will have to be a spare cheapo electric fuel pump or 2
Good info on the EFI pump mounting location. I talked to Affordable a little while ago about the use of a surge tank and he said by all means. He didn't think the overall size of the tank was overly critical. He mentioned 1/2 gallon to a gallon. I'll have to look thinks over for a mounting location and I'll make a decision from there.

I think I pretty much have my fuel feed system mapped out now so it's just a matter of getting the chassis cleaned and painted so I can start assembling things.

I agree, the ignition switch should be more than sufficient to fill the surge tank if it ever needs it. I'm not sure how the tank would run dry if the return line comes off the top of the tank and the suction feed to the high pressure pump is at the bottom.
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Old 01-06-2016, 07:59 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post
I have an old Laptop that just sits on the doghouse. Wished I could run it through the Jensen, but both the TBI and the O2 sensor have their own software.
Is any of the software available for your smart phone as an App? If so there is an HDMI video input to the Jensen that will display what's on your smart phone. Check out page 56 of the Operation Manual for HDMI info.

Also the Jensen has RCA type video-in inputs called AV-1 and AV-2 so if you could possibly send the output of your laptop to a the Jensen via RCA video cables. Look at page 14 of Operation Manual and look at the installation instructions for the AV cables.

Quote:
That works for me, just remember when you come to a fork in the road, take it...
Even if it's not mine?
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:13 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
Is any of the software available for your smart phone as an App? If so there is an HDMI video input to the Jensen that will display what's on your smart phone. Check out page 56 of the Operation Manual for HDMI info.

Also the Jensen has RCA type video-in inputs called AV-1 and AV-2 so if you could possibly send the output of your laptop to a the Jensen via RCA video cables. Look at page 14 of Operation Manual and look at the installation instructions for the AV cables.



Even if it's not mine?
Thanks for the Jensen input, Brad. I will look into this.
In the meantime, I wrote to Innovative tech support about my idle AF ratio issue. I suspect a problem with the 02 sensor. Unfortunately it was mounted at 3 o'clock, any position between 3 and 9 is prohibited due to moisture entering the sensor. It needs to be mounted between 10 and 2, just like Steve did his. If that is the case, I will be looking at a banks system sooner that I thought .
I was trying to run it in open loop, taking the O2 sensor out completely, but it got too late to figure it out.
Here is the open Loop info from the manual:
1.21 Open Loop
Open loop defines the engine operation where the fueling level
is calculated by the ECU with only the input signals from the
throttle position sensor (TPS), from the coolant and/or air charge temperature, and from the manifold absolute pressure (MAP).
Feedback from the oxygen sensor is not used in calculating fueling amount
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:22 PM   #74
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Peter, can you put a new bung for an o2 sensor in the collector (if you have headers) or somewhere down stream in the exhaust pipe and use a heated sensor? I would think a good exhaust shop could do that relatively easily.
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:45 PM   #75
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Peter, can you put a new bung for an o2 sensor in the collector (if you have headers) or somewhere down stream in the exhaust pipe and use a heated sensor? I would think a good exhaust shop could do that relatively easily.
I have the stock manifolds, with the drivers side leaking. So, headers are on my list along with a new exhaust system.
I believe that all wide band O2 sensors are the heated type.
Remember the switches (trinary) you recommended for the new cooling fans? While I was going through all the settings, I found fan settings, controlled by coolant temp, I.e fan on at 191, fan off at 182.
Same with the closed loop (O2 sensor input for fuel map) and open loop (all other sensors input for fuel map). I can set it to run in open loop in idle and then I.e. at 1050 rpm switch to closed loop.
You as a programmer will have a blast working with all the variables and programming the ECU.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:46 AM   #76
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You as a programmer will have a blast working with all the variables and programming the ECU.
Infinite configurability sometimes can be a huge curse, BUT I do like to tinker
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:56 AM   #77
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I recently ran across this website that provides tools and software to program the GM 16168625 ECM used in my system.

Don't know anything about them but this could be an interesting alternative once the system is installed.
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:53 AM   #78
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Your experience with the o2 sensor matches with what I've been reading elsewhere. That works in my favor as I have ceramic coated Hedman headers. Having a heated o2 sensor in the collector would be my preference.



Do you remember if your inline electric pump installation was below tank level or somewhere above the bottom of the tank? I've been reading about inline pump issues and one point seems to be the inline pump has to be at or near the level of the bottom of the tank. Another comment was to use the stock mechanical pump to act as a "scavenger" pump for the inline pump. Supposedly with this arrangement the inline pump can be mounted anywhere down stream of the mechanical pump. I'm still trying to find out more
information about that arrangement.

The sending unit I bought for my fuel tank is from an in-tank fuel system so if I can modify the sending unit to fit my tank that might be the solution.



I was wondering which order you had done your installation.



So whose TBI system did you install the $1300 CPU in?
Sorry I'm taking so long. Just had internet for the last couple days again w/o finding free wifi.

I first mounted the IP along the frame with the Holley pump still in front of the tank as it came from AS. After the 2nd IP failure I realize the Holley pump was not working all the time caused by failing splices in the wire to the Holley pump. I then moved the inline IP back to were the Holley had been and put the spine on fuel filter where the pump was. Then, after everyone told me I needed the IP in the tank, I put the Fast kit into the tank.

The new cpu plugged right into the wiring harness. With it, I tuned it with my laptop.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:09 PM   #79
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Peter, everything I've read up to this point also mentioned removing the mechanical pump completely. I was reviewing the installation manual for the AFI TBI system and came across this paragraph:

"Recent fuel pump installations have kept the vehicle’s mechanical fuel pump intact and used it as scavenger pump for the electric fuel pump. With this type of installation the electric fuel pump can be mounted in any location that you would choose, as a constant fuel flow is available for the electric pump. Ensure that the fuel filter is still installed between the mechanical and the electric pump if you choose this type of fuel pump installation."

I was somewhat surprised when I read it and have been searching for more info on the subject but haven't come up with much.



I do like the idea of eliminating the mechanical pump and was caught off guard by the statement about using it as a scavenger pump. I plan on asking AFI about it.

Can you post a picture of your surge tank? I've not ran across references anywhere to the use of a surge tank with TBI.

Brad
Loose the mechanical pump. More than likely you'd loose pressure back to the tank as the mechanical only puts 5psi to the carb.

I welded a nut to the cover plate for the anti-knock senser.

I ran a 3/8" stainless steel return line too.
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Old 01-08-2016, 08:16 PM   #80
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Infinite configurability sometimes can be a huge curse, BUT I do like to tinker
If I would start from scratch, i would make sure to get a self-tuning EFI system. Its already a huge job to input the correct data for your personal application, any help from a self-tuning ECU would be a great blessing.
My system is not self-tuning and I am experiencing the above mentioned curse.
Among many things there is a Volt/AF table, meaning the voltage send by the wide band O2 sensor corresponds to a AF ratio, with 0 volt=10 AF and 5 v=18 AF
My table was wrong. It was the stock Holley table with a Innovate O2 sensor. After entering the correct table, I now get the correct AF of 14.7
But I need to do more fine tuning, but right now my head is spinning
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:39 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by choctawmel View Post
Loose the mechanical pump. More than likely you'd loose pressure back to the tank as the mechanical only puts 5psi to the carb.

I welded a nut to the cover plate for the anti-knock senser.

I ran a 3/8" stainless steel return line too.
Yep, the mechanical pump is going away. I'm pretty sure I'll be using a Surge tank with a low pressure pump feeding the surge tank and the high pressure pump sucking from the surge tank to the TBI.

Talking with Affordable they indicated the return line is 5/16" so I stick with that size.

Thanks!
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Old 01-09-2016, 06:57 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by PeterH-Airstreamer View Post


If I would start from scratch, i would make sure to get a self-tuning EFI system. Its already a huge job to input the correct data for your personal application, any help from a self-tuning ECU would be a great blessing.
My system is not self-tuning and I am experiencing the above mentioned curse.
Among many things there is a Volt/AF table, meaning the voltage send by the wide band O2 sensor corresponds to a AF ratio, with 0 volt=10 AF and 5 v=18 AF
My table was wrong. It was the stock Holley table with a Innovate O2 sensor. After entering the correct table, I now get the correct AF of 14.7
I could be wrong but several weeks ago while talking to the guy at Affordable I believe he stated the system was self-tuning. I'm going to give them a call Monday and get some clarification about that.

Quote:
But I need to do more fine tuning, but right now my head is spinning
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Old 01-09-2016, 07:16 AM   #83
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I could be wrong but several weeks ago while talking to the guy at Affordable I believe he stated the system was self-tuning. I'm going to give them a call Monday and get some clarification about that.



"Whilst" you talk to them, could you find out what brand of wide band O2 Sensor they recommend.
I have Innovate Bosch LC1 version, which is now absolute and was replaced by LC2 .
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Old 01-09-2016, 05:24 PM   #84
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"Whilst" you talk to them, could you find out what brand of wide band O2 Sensor they recommend.
I have Innovate Bosch LC1 version, which is now absolute and was replaced by LC2 .
Peter, I'll see what they have to say.
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