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Old 12-30-2015, 12:09 PM   #29
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Steve, I don't really have a donor motor. My motor has been built and has already been ran on the test stand. I have mine configured with three belts which is the combination I like the best. I do have a 1/2 serpentine setup from the 345 but I don't have any interest in using it.

In talking with the guy at Affordable Fuel Injection (talked to him again today) he said my Edelbrock Performer 2 intake and the Comp Cams RV cam will not be a problem. Their kit does come with an adapter plate for the TBI body. Here's a listing of what comes with the kit. He's comfortable with the VSSB module that I purchased and my plans on how to configure it for my chassis.

I will be sending them my ECM which drops the price a little.

-Complete fully electronic ECM-controlled distributor
-Rebuilt TBI unit with Flow Matched Injectors
-ECM with AFIís specially calibrated chip
-Complete wiring harness
-Adapter plate, gaskets, hardware
-External Electric fuel pump with filter
-Fuel pump relay
-Power relay
-Coolant sensor
-MAP sensor
-O2 sensor
-Check engine indicator

Affordable Fuel Injection

I will be using an Airhorn instead of the normal air filter housing. I will be running a hose to an air filter near the front of the motorhome.

If I have any doghouse clearance issues I'll just raise the frame accordingly till it fits
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Old 12-30-2015, 12:25 PM   #30
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454 TBI, yes/no good/bad idea?

Been there done that,,,,

Here are my recommendations,,,,

If you want the engine management computer to work right ditch it, and buy a "Fast Fuel" (or other proven aftermarket) computer, and buy a separate transmission controller.

Trying to make the stock computer work in a swap is a royal pain in the ass, and even with a "reflash", it is going to suffer from a lack of inputs from things the computer is looking for but ain't there.




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Old 12-31-2015, 12:22 PM   #31
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I guess I fail to see how a GM TBI system would not work right on a GM 454 motor. The only sensor not provided is the knock sensor and I don't particularly want a knock sensor. So your argument about lack of inputs is basically without merit.



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Been there done that,,,,

Here are my recommendations,,,,

If you want the engine management computer to work right ditch it, and buy a "Fast Fuel" (or other proven aftermarket) computer, and buy a separate transmission controller.

Trying to make the stock computer work in a swap is a royal pain in the ass, and even with a "reflash", it is going to suffer from a lack of inputs from things the computer is looking for but ain't there.




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Old 12-31-2015, 02:53 PM   #32
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I am just saying that in my experience, swapping a stock vehicle computer into a different vehicle has not proven as simple, as straight forward, or as trouble free as the sellers of the kits want to imply.

I have had much better luck with complete aftermarket solutions.

Some of these solutions are affordable. I really liked the FastFuel setup. It was easy, tunable, and it works great for under a $1,000.

However, I don't think it is available for TBI.

The other aftermarket EFI I have used is the Edelbrock ProFlo II, it is an awesome solution, but not cheap.

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Old 12-31-2015, 02:58 PM   #33
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454 TBI, yes/no good/bad idea?

I guess what I am saying, is we bought a kit to make a stock ECU work in a swap, paid to have the computer reflashed, worked with it extensively trying to get it to run right, (it ran, but it didn't run right) and then removed it and replaced it with a better solution.

I would have been better off buying the right stuff right from the get go. Might not be the case for you and or others though!

Good luck with the project!


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Old 12-31-2015, 04:53 PM   #34
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Brad, I am with you. I think the whole TBI system should move from one 454 to another just fine. Just a short while ago I managed to pull the engine from the trailer and the harness from my old truck. I think I might take the RV down to the shop and have the hole drilled for the O2 sensor so I can slowly start moving everything over this winter. Any suggestions for a good inline fuel pump?
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Old 12-31-2015, 08:39 PM   #35
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I don't have any desire to use a system that doesn't use stock off the shelf hardware. I'm sure there's a thousand and one systems that are better than a stock oem tbi. I did some googling and found just as many people bad mouthing a stock tbi kit as there were people praising the same system. I think its all about managing your expectations. I would hope that a $2500+ sytems would be better than a $1000 system. But I'm comfortable with the thought that I can make a $1000 system work for my needs.

My 454 currently resides on a test stand. I should be able to install and test whatever system I buy and would hope that most bugs can be worked out on the test stand. One possible problem to over come is I have headers so I will need to figure out where to install the o2 sensor. I'll probably need a temporary collector and muffler for mounting the o2 sensor, but I think I can manage that.

Matt, where are you mounting the o2 sensor? If I remember right you still have the stock cast iron manifolds where I'll installing hedman headers.

The system I'm looking at comes with a fuel pump so as yet I've not done much research in that area. Off the top of my head I'm thinking a Holley Blue pump might work.

Brad
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Old 12-31-2015, 09:13 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
....
Matt, where are you mounting the o2 sensor? If I remember right you still have the stock cast iron manifolds where I'll installing hedman headers.
Brad
Since I will be looking to install a banks system, I have been checking what the best location for the O2 sensor would be. Steve installed it just before the collector, Banks supplies the first tube with a bung for the o2 sensor.
This is what Chiefair said:
My Banks kit came with a bung already in the first short section of pipe that bolts to the left header collector. I ordered the fuel injected version of the kit so I would not have to plug the holes for the smog lines. Sorry I am away and can't get a photo.
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Old 01-01-2016, 07:52 AM   #37
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Peter, Steve clued me in to this site where you can find out about Proper Placement of O2 Sensor. Lots of good info.

GM ECM PCM Conversion Info from the same site.

I found this site last night that provides programmable chips and hardware for the stock GM ECM units. If a system from companies like Affordable Fuel Injection doesn't quite work right this would likely help solve the problem.

Edit: Even if you add a programmable chip from the above company the price would still be cheaper than most other options out there for complete kits.

Brad
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:21 AM   #38
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Brad, dig around on the Gearhead forum, and I recall seeing a mention of a particular ecu from the 90s that was the fastest and best of the bunch. They might not be the smartest ecu's or best efi system but you can't beat knowing that you should be able to buy/find replacement parts anywhere. Just reading poor Mel's comments about his 4L80 aftermarket controller support reinforces the reasoning.
I also like the idea of having a spare ecu, and other priority stuff onboard.
As soon as I have a few of my priority projects wrapped up I plan to dig into this conversation. Luckily, it seems the 2 systems I have(87 and 90)are identical, and even use the same ecu. The ECU I got last month is for the transmission can be piggybacked onto the engine controller.
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:21 PM   #39
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Brad, dig around on the Gearhead forum, and I recall seeing a mention of a particular ecu from the 90s that was the fastest and best of the bunch. They might not be the smartest ecu's or best efi system but you can't beat knowing that you should be able to buy/find replacement parts anywhere. Just reading poor Mel's comments about his 4L80 aftermarket controller support reinforces the reasoning.
Yeah, I was thinking about that while reading Mel's thread.

Quote:
I also like the idea of having a spare ecu, and other priority stuff onboard.
As soon as I have a few of my priority projects wrapped up I plan to dig into this conversation. Luckily, it seems the 2 systems I have(87 and 90)are identical, and even use the same ecu. The ECU I got last month is for the transmission can be piggybacked onto the engine controller.
I have been poking around the Gearhead forum, lots of interesting stuff there.

I'll definitely have spares on board but at least the spares won't be to badly priced. Or should I say the price of spares won't break the bank
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:39 PM   #40
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Came to the ranch yesterday. It's time to move the motor home to another space. It was 27 degrees last night.

Engine starting procedures this morning: press accelerator to floor and release, crank engine over for 5 seconds. Pause. Turn key to start and engine fired right up. Choke worked great. Engine ran great.

I've made 5 trips to Yosemite, 3 trips to Burning Man, 3 trips to Coos Bay, 3 trips to Lassen, multiple trips done the mountain to town. All this with my Quadra-Jet carburetor. All without a$3000 investment in an aftermarket FI, all without multiple backup ECUs and sensors.

I'm keeping my Quadra-Jet. It works very well. Just saying!


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Old 01-03-2016, 07:20 AM   #41
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I'm keeping my Quadra-Jet. It works very well. Just saying!
Well where's the fun in that?

Speaking for myself, my whole 454 & TH400 (not 475) transmission combo has mostly been pieced together from scratch. My coach came to me with the orgininal 454 and TH475 missing. It came with a 350 and TH400 where the install was never finished.

I definitely want to install the 4L80e transmission but after reading about Mel's issues with his aftermarket controller for his 4L80e that reinforced my opposition to aftermarket electronics. If the Argosy was something to tinker with then aftermarket goodies would be fine but not for something I plan to use for long trips and I want dependability more than I want the latest and greatest.

Since I need to use the Chevy ECM to control the transmission the next logical step (to me anyway!) is to add the Chevy TBI. Especially considering the engine is still sitting on the test stand waiting to be installed in the chassis. Sitting on the test stand means I can install the TBI and run the engine to work out most of the bugs prior to installing in the chassis.

Seems like a logical progression to me
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:56 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkahler View Post
I don't have any desire to use a system that doesn't use stock off the shelf hardware. I'm sure there's a thousand and one systems that are better than a stock oem tbi. I did some googling and found just as many people bad mouthing a stock tbi kit as there were people praising the same system. I think its all about managing your expectations. I would hope that a $2500+ sytems would be better than a $1000 system. But I'm comfortable with the thought that I can make a $1000 system work for my needs.

My 454 currently resides on a test stand. I should be able to install and test whatever system I buy and would hope that most bugs can be worked out on the test stand. One possible problem to over come is I have headers so I will need to figure out where to install the o2 sensor. I'll probably need a temporary collector and muffler for mounting the o2 sensor, but I think I can manage that.

Matt, where are you mounting the o2 sensor? If I remember right you still have the stock cast iron manifolds where I'll installing hedman headers.

The system I'm looking at comes with a fuel pump so as yet I've not done much research in that area. Off the top of my head I'm thinking a Holley Blue pump might work.

Brad
Brad, When I did my EFI 15 years again I started out with the o2 at as close of the head as possible, then I changes to a heated o2 and moved it to the header collector. Seemed to work better at the collector and it can read both barrels of the EFI.
As far as the fuel pump: Inline pumps are sucking and can develop pulses and air bubbles effecting the injector pressure. I went throw 3-4 injector pumps because they do not like to suck. That's the reason I put the in-tank pump in that is giving me nightmares with the diesel convection. I used the Fast in-tank pump kit from Summit for that.
I used the TCI transmission controller. But then I did the 4L80e 10 years after the EFI was put on.
After the 454 blow in Las Cruses last year and the fact I couldn't get the right PROM, I installed (I don't remember the name of it) a fully programmable computer just before the engine started to fail AGAIN. With the old CPM was running air/fuel of 19/1. Not good to do that for 2000 miles.
I talked to a person at 'affordable fuel injector' who sounded happy to help me with a new PROM just after I got the motor home back in Las Cruses. Then when I got home, they would only sell me the whole think. That's why I spent another $1300 on the new programmable CPU.

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