Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-07-2016, 11:16 AM   #15
3 Rivet Member
 
Grosspoluter's Avatar

 
1984 34.5' Airstream 345
Franklin Park , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 144
Electric fuel pump

Is it possible that my 84 345 dosent have a electric fuel pump?
I to have had the stalling or Bouging down problum so I started to do the filters and the rubber fuel lines but I've traced the fuel line from tank to carb and can't find a pump, I thought maybe the PO took it out when it stopped working and never replaced it (like they did on the tag axel breaks)
I have bought a electric pump that was sugested here on the forum and plan to install it, but I'd hate to think I'm trying to pull (or pump) fuel through a bad or broken pump but I just don't see a electric pump any where
(I even have one of those tiny inspection cameras and used it to look on top of the tank... Nothing)
__________________

__________________
Grosspoluter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2016, 11:42 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosspoluter View Post
Is it possible that my 84 345 dosent have a electric fuel pump?
I to have had the stalling or Bouging down problum so I started to do the filters and the rubber fuel lines but I've traced the fuel line from tank to carb and can't find a pump, I thought maybe the PO took it out when it stopped working and never replaced it (like they did on the tag axel breaks)
I have bought a electric pump that was sugested here on the forum and plan to install it, but I'd hate to think I'm trying to pull (or pump) fuel through a bad or broken pump but I just don't see a electric pump any where
(I even have one of those tiny inspection cameras and used it to look on top of the tank... Nothing)
Nothing would surprise me on how these rigs are setup. Airstream might have left the pump off or as you suggested some previous owner might have removed it. You might look for a wire hanging down from the chassis somewhere along the route the fuel line travels, who knows you might get lucky and find a wire that is for a pump.

On the 345 I dismantled the electric pump was between the front of the tank and a chassis frame cross member. The pump was bolted to a flat metal plate. I can post pictures of the mounting plate as I still have it and plan on using it on my Argosy.

I have seen electric pumps that look more like an round metal inline filter so if you have something like that in your fuel line it could be a pump.

Check out this thread about electric fuel pumps for the 345.

Brad
__________________

__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2016, 07:42 AM   #17
3 Rivet Member
 
1982 31' Airstream 310
Henniker , New Hampshire
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosspoluter View Post
Is it possible that my 84 345 dosent have a electric fuel pump?
I to have had the stalling or Bouging down problum so I started to do the filters and the rubber fuel lines but I've traced the fuel line from tank to carb and can't find a pump, I thought maybe the PO took it out when it stopped working and never replaced it (like they did on the tag axel breaks)
I have bought a electric pump that was sugested here on the forum and plan to install it, but I'd hate to think I'm trying to pull (or pump) fuel through a bad or broken pump but I just don't see a electric pump any where
(I even have one of those tiny inspection cameras and used it to look on top of the tank... Nothing)
My 82 310 does not have an electric pump and there is no evidence that there ever was one. I have not had any problems with fuel starvation, even after I replaced the 454 and Quadrajet with a 502 and a Holley 850 carb.
__________________
1982 310 motorhome 502
Henniker New Hampshire
chiefair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2016, 09:07 AM   #18
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefair View Post
My 82 310 does not have an electric pump and there is no evidence that there ever was one. I have not had any problems with fuel starvation, even after I replaced the 454 and Quadrajet with a 502 and a Holley 850 carb.
Wow, that's amazing! Somethings things just work!

I know on my Argosy the feed line was 3/8" and on the 86 345 that I dismantled the fuel fuel feed line was either 7/16" or 1/2" I still have the long section of pipe leaning up against my shop wall.

I wonder how much difference feed line size makes for problems like the OP is experiencing?
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2016, 09:49 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 548
My 84 Excella 270 only had the mechanical pump with the Quadrajet.
If you go for a rebuild, get it done by a pro, not a local shop, you will regret the latter. Never do a core swap, you will get unknown body & parts!

I got tired of carb problems so I installed a TBI kit and in tank pump and I could not be happier.
Here are my pages on the install:
In Tank Pump
TBI kit install
__________________
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2016, 11:00 AM   #20
2 Rivet Member
 
Paul and Tam's Avatar
 
1988 34.5' Airstream 345
Ham Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 60
Problem #1: Failing to start cold. One more possibility is a failing mechanical fuel pump. Generally a failing accelerator pump in the carburetor will show as a lean stumble when you go from idle to half or more throttle in drive (warm engine), as when accelerating away from a stop light. If you step on the gas and you get a lean stumble instead of acceleration you typically have a bad accelerator pump in the carb.

My son has an '87 el Camino with a 350, and if I let it sit for more than a month at a stretch I need to trickle a little gas into the carb to get it to fire. Once it starts the fuel pump seems to work fine. Restarts seem to be OK, it is just that initial start after a long-ish period of storage.

I'll echo what Brad said - I have an electric fuel pump in the same place on our 345.

All the best in solving the issue. I'll stick around to watch for cooling system ideas.

- Paul
__________________
Paul and Tam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2016, 02:20 PM   #21
2 Rivet Member
 
RoadRoman's Avatar
 
1976 28' Argosy 28
Middletown , California
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul and Tam View Post
Problem #1: Failing to start cold. One more possibility is a failing mechanical fuel pump. Generally a failing accelerator pump in the carburetor will show as a lean stumble when you go from idle to half or more throttle in drive (warm engine), as when accelerating away from a stop light. If you step on the gas and you get a lean stumble instead of acceleration you typically have a bad accelerator pump in the carb.

- Paul
Awesome, I'm having the carb rebuilt, hopefully that will fix the problem. Thanks a lot for the advice!
__________________
RoadRoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2016, 10:22 PM   #22
3 Rivet Member
 
Grosspoluter's Avatar

 
1984 34.5' Airstream 345
Franklin Park , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 144
Electric pump

OK so replaced fuel filters most of the fuel line and installed a electric pump
I haven't gone for a test ride yet because the pump isn't permently wired in yet..
I bought a cheap mr gasket fuel pressure gauge and installed it right after the electric pump (pump is right in front of the fuel tank I believe the gauge was a P.O.S.
It gave a reading of 3psi
Weather the engine was running or not, also the gauge leaked fuel, and when the gas got on the plastic gauge window it fogged the plastic making the gauge almost unreadable
The fuel pump (carter P4070) does pump fuel to the manual pump and it is quiet
I still would like to install a gauge but I'll spend the next day or two permently wiring it in so I have another question...
Should the pump be running all the time or should I install a switch to run it only when I want.
Right not the engine will run with the pump running or not
__________________
Grosspoluter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 02:52 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 548
3 PSI may be a little low, 5 would be better, but a cheap gauge is not a reliable measure.

A electric fuel pump should be hooked up to run only when the engine is running.
To do that it should have a safety interlock that prevents it from pumping unless the ignition switch is on and there is oil pressure.
Too many people leave out the oil pressure switch, which is a bad idea. The reason for it is that if you break a fuel line after the electric pump or your carb float sticks open, it will be pouring fuel some place creating a fire hazard. If the engine is not running because of lack of fuel, there will be no oil pressure and the fuel pump will stop pumping.
I found this diagram for a fuel pump hookup, there may be better methods
__________________
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 08:42 AM   #24
3 Rivet Member
 
Grosspoluter's Avatar

 
1984 34.5' Airstream 345
Franklin Park , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 144
Fuel pressure guage

With the understanding that the only dumb question is the unasked one....
When I install the fuel pressure guage where should I put the sensor
(this guage will be dash mounted)
Between the electric and mechanical pump or between the carburetor and mechanical punp? And what should I expect to see as far as readings?
Will pressure reading drop at wide open throttle, or under load? Because the pump is now feeding the carburetor?
__________________
Grosspoluter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 06:40 PM   #25
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,220
I guess it would depend on what you're most concerned about, output of the electric pump or the output of the mechanical pump. If I was installing it on my Argosy I would want to know what the pressure is going into the carburetor.

Actually on my Argosy I'm installing a fuel pressure sender just before the carburetor (actually throttle body In my case) because if the fuel pressure is good at that point then any problem I might experience is not fuel feed related.
__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2016, 05:11 AM   #26
Rivet Master
 
WayneG's Avatar
 
1984 27' Airstream 270
Scotia , New York
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 548
I went a little over kill on my pressure gauge, but it is worth it. When I installed my TBI kit I was having all kinds of fuel problems, to make a long story short, it turned out I was sucking air in the fuel tank causing the electric pump to loose pressure. The full story
I used a surplus digital sender unit with a analog output to a digital dash gauge:


The strip above has 3 color LED strip, Red for low pressure, Green for OK, Yellow for high pressure. My Throttle body uses 30 PSI inlet pressure.
Your best place to measure fuel pressure is right at the input at the carb because that will tell you if the pumps are working or if the filters are clogged or your sucking air.
Dont forget to install a filter before the electric pump (If you have room) The gas tanks in mine had a lot of rust-dust sloshing in the bottom of the tank so the PO installed a huge filter inline:

Since my latest setup has only one pump in the tank, I have a sock filter on it also to keep it from sucking rust.
__________________
WayneG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 02:58 AM   #27
3 Rivet Member
 
Grosspoluter's Avatar

 
1984 34.5' Airstream 345
Franklin Park , Illinois
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 144
All good?

As of today I have the electric pump, and a guage up and running
Without the electric pump the pressure at the carb. Was 3-0
With the pump running it's about 4-5!
Guage is installed 6" before the carb.
Just curious how can the pressure read 0 and the engine still run (it ran, idled for about 5 minutes with 0 psi.) at that point is it just engine vacuume pulling in fuel?
__________________
Grosspoluter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2016, 04:55 AM   #28
Rivet Master
 
bkahler's Avatar

 
1974 20' Argosy 20
Richmond , Kentucky
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grosspoluter View Post
As of today I have the electric pump, and a guage up and running
Without the electric pump the pressure at the carb. Was 3-0
With the pump running it's about 4-5!
Guage is installed 6" before the carb.
Just curious how can the pressure read 0 and the engine still run (it ran, idled for about 5 minutes with 0 psi.) at that point is it just engine vacuume pulling in fuel?
What were the circumstances where the engine was running and you had 0 psi?

If the electric pump was off and the engine was running then the mechanical pump was having to pull fuel through the electric pump, I can see where that might reduce the pressure to a minimal amount. The electric pump will likely create a little bit of restriction to flow when not running.

Also the gauge itself is likely to not be quite as accurate at the lower and upper ends of it's range. Most instruments provide accurate readings towards the middle of their range and as the readings drop towards the minimum or rise towards the maximum the numbers won't be quite as accurate.

Brad
__________________

__________________
Air forums # 1674
1974 20' Argosy Motor Home
1974 31' Excella trailer (parting out, as of 4/1/2015 I have wheels, brake drums, windows & holding tanks left to sell)
bkahler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Late 454 vs early 454 & 400 vs 4L80E gbell Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 33 07-01-2017 05:59 AM
MH 454 Engine Warrenty and ? ViewRVs Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 18 11-27-2004 05:55 AM
Question on 454 MH Engine RonJudi Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 7 01-20-2004 10:54 AM
454 engine questions Curtis-79MH Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 10 10-06-2003 06:22 AM
Argosy 454 engine repair in Amarillo TX saxonsraven General Motorhome Topics 5 08-01-2003 05:08 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.