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swebster · 07-21-2004, 06:38 AM

froggies,
We have WAY fewer kids (three under nine) but thats exactly why we ended up in a MH. It's a dream traveling now. There's nothing better than handing our PB&Js at 60 mph. I would think you would need to look at the larger MH's (325/245) to get the right number of seats with seat belts. Basically it would be you and your husband up front, there are two belated barrel chairs on the passenger side. Three belts on the couch and two more belts in the dinette. You would still be one short but I think you could add two more belts in the dinette pretty easily. This would give you seating for nine in the coach and two up front.

One option we are considering is to convert the rear bed into a U-Lounge which could add three or four more belted positions but still convert into a bed when camping. This has more to do with the seperation of children while traveling than anything else. Besides, when we're on the road they all want to go back there and look out the windows but we won't let them for safety reasons.

You may be able to modify a smaller coach in similar ways to meet your budget for the MH. It could be hard to find a larger Airstream MH in good running condition for 10K. More like high teens to twenties for a 310 and high teens to high twenties for a 325/345.

You can certainly find an Argosy in that range but it would require some modifications to accomidate safe seating for 10.

froggies · 07-21-2004, 06:51 AM

Thank-you Steven for the ideas...we have added seats and seatbelts to our various autos so I know I can do that with a motorhome if there is room. The rear into a U lounge is a great idea...thanks for the info on price, any ideas on warning signs as far as the engine?

85MH325 · 07-21-2004, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j54mark

When, or if, Airstream gets a new "Classic" motorhome into production, all the money you spend acquiring an older Airstream motorhome, plus all the money you spend on repairs to bring it up to standard, plus all the money you spend on upgrades, STILL might be less than the sales tax alone on a new one - at least in many states. And that is an absolute dead loss.

Mark

Mark nailed it on this one... unless you concentrate on very rare coaches, buy low, restore well, and sell high, Airstreams are most definately NOT an investment. Investments appreciate. RVs in general continue to depreciate with age. The limited depreciation on Airstreams is where it's from a financial perspective. Any RV that you can use as long as you want and still get 70% or better of your initial expense returned at sale time is a good buy. There are some cases where you can get your entire expenditure back or even make a few dollars.

Once the "New" Classic motorhome hits the market, I predict that your coaches will begin to appreciate. I'd expect the new coaches to be in the $200k bracket, and they will bring in a new segment of the market who are folks who want the new Classics but can't afford them. They'll look at the old Classics for sale, and those will get snapped up quickly in the $20k-$40k range. The original Bambis, Caravels, GTs and Safaris have skyrocketed in value because of similar market demand in the past five years as folks compare them to the new models at $30k+ and up. I'd expect to see a similar rise in the old Classic coaches. Perhaps not quite as much or as fast, because the Classic motorhome segment of the Airstream market isn't as large as the small coach buying segment, but I think you'll see them go up simply because of supply and demand.

I watch the value on the Behemoth closely, and interestingly it hasn't depreciated in the two years (two camping seasons, about 16 months now) we've had it. I suspect that's probably because the new prices have gone up something like 8% a year for the past two or three years? It may not be appreciating, but at least it's holding it's own and it's not costing me a fortune to own it!

And yes, I used to compare my 325 to my sailboats. The common definition of a sailboat is: "a fiberglass hole in the water into which one pours money." While not fiberglass, I think this the old adage about sailboats applies equally well to Classic Motorhomes as a hobby.

Roger

norbert · 07-21-2004, 08:04 AM

a hole in the water lined with wood....what is this schtick about fiberglass....

swebster · 07-21-2004, 08:30 AM

Quote:

any ideas on warning signs as far as the engine?

Well everything you would want to check mechanically in a truck with the additional issue that many motorhome engines die an early death not because they were abused or have racked up too many miles, but rather because they were hardly used at all. The average Motorhome only gets about 5K miles per year on it! So a twenty year old coach with only 50K miles on it sounds great but could be worse than one with 100K miles on it. It all comes down to proper care a feeding by the previous owner(s). I just looked at a beautiful 89 345 on a dealer's lot last week which gave up the motor on a test drive. It was advertised for $28K with "Low Miles".

Do a search for "Motorhome Checklist" on the forum. Thats a good place to start regarding what to look at mechanically.

BTW - I agree with Roger on the value of these old beasts. I bought mine at a very good price but it needed some TLC. I think if I sold it when it's done I could make my investment back to date. I don't think I could make a profit as I've put a lot back into it. But to me the value is more in the use and quality you get as compared to taking on a second mortage to buy a fiberglass box.

85MH325 · 07-21-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norbert

a hole in the water lined with wood....what is this schtick about fiberglass....

Steve... folks who have wood boats are in their very own class of crazy!

Roger

IPM · 07-23-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froggies

MORE KIDS>>>MORE CAMPING>>>
I am willing to pay $10,000 cash immediately.Possibly a little more. Maybe I am crazy and I won't be able to find one for that price but it does not hurt to try...I am hoping for one that runs well...the interior condition not important. My husband can fix just about anything as far as carpentry,electrical,etc, we gutted and restored the Safari. But not engines...he is not a mechanic. I know a good mechanic though...Am I insane to hope there might be one out there for me? This week on ebay there is a classic motorhome that seats 13...very tempting! I am terrified though of engine blowup...the last van I had blew the transmission 2 weeks after I got it...now I am very worried about engines....sigh...any help or suggestions would be extremely appreciated...thanks so very, very much!

I suggest start looking at these motor homes to become familiar with them. Get an idea of what to expect a good one is like. Then you will know when you have found a good one. Engines and transmissions are another story. They can seem fine and then boom, problems occur. The chasis engine, and tranny of any vehicle requires repair if one keeps it long enough. Just budget in advance for potential drivetrain problems to avoid future disappointments. Perhaps lean toward units that favor your repair skill sets and away from units with chasis repairs required. And have a great time with an airstream. Be sure to join the "wally" club. Safe bunch of folks to have your children around.

regards,

Mike

froggies · 07-23-2004, 10:11 AM

mike...thanks....since i don't know what a chassis is....i may be in big trouble....and again, sorry no capital letters on this computer...

we have been in the wbcci for i think 3 years....but i must confess even though the people were wonderful i don't think i will renew this year. long story.

IPM · 07-23-2004, 11:29 AM

chasis is everything under the camper body, frame engine, suspension, axles tires, etc.

change your local region if it's a people issue, my first association did not even bother to give us name tags....... other regions tried to recruit us.... go figure, I'm switching to western NC unit, my mother is the president this year, pop was past president...............do most club related camping with them anyway.

froggies · 07-23-2004, 03:47 PM

not a people issue...the people were wonderful in our unit....it is more the cost. an average rally with a per child charge times 8 kids was way out of line. rallies for 10 people are just too expensive. a rally right here in my state to holland was going to be a couple thousand for a week i think it was... i contacted the nice people in charge of the rally and they were sorry, but they just could not do it for less... state rally this year..even though right here in michigan, just a couple hours from me, no way, because they charged 50.00 to 60.00 per child, 8 children, the baby would have been free this year, plus 2 adults in trailer for the 210.00. i went to vermont last year, and everyone was wonderful, but i just don't have that much dough to drop on a parking spot.there is some good activities i know, but it is still just too much. i know ours is a unique situation so i don't expect special treatment. it still is upsetting though. i really enjoyed the people and my red numbers.lol. i have called the home office about it, but no one really was that concerned, just polite and oh well. i guess there are not enough big families to really court them to join the wbcci for them to be concerned about it. i understand, but it still is really, really frustrating. i keep reading in the blue beret how they want younger families, but i did not see anything happen except talking about it.in reading this over, i guess i am more upset about it than i realized.i did get involved with my local unit to serve as an officer and those were more affordable, my unit went out of their way to be friendly and helpful. there is a rally in september somewhere in amish ohio or something that was not per child cost...i would like to try that one this year if i am able to get another airstream....sorry, i know my tone is very aggravated. it is just i can't justify paying a yearly fee to have 8344 in red numbers on my airstream. my suggestions would be that they do some sort of family rate rather than per kid, and give you a choice to opt out of the activities that you would not go to anyway to help the cost, and offer more rallies that are family friendly at a reasonable cost. i agree with the gentleman writing in the blue beret, they have to remember some of us are still working for a living but trying to be involved too.

sorry if i vented....maybe it will do some good in the future for somebody else if they make it better for families....i really would like to stay in it, and i would definetely stay with my same unit...that group of people was the best

froggies · 07-23-2004, 03:58 PM

i know i sound like a big whiney, sorry....

thenewkid64 · 07-23-2004, 07:50 PM

Froggies,

I think they heard you as well as some others, at least on the International level. The rally fee for Springfield is 210.00 for 2 in a trailer, For the kids you pay for the first two @ 60 dollars and the rest are FREE.

I understand your frustration regarding issues like this. Unfortunately the only way to make change happen today is to keep making the appropriate leaders aware of the issue s that it gets addressed. I think that many of the regional rallies are starting to do a prorate for the attendees that do not come for the whole rally as well.

Attached is a copy of the early registration form for Springfield.

froggies · 07-23-2004, 08:15 PM

brett, thanks so much...i will check it out and compare my schedule....

i can't say enough good things about all the wonderful, kind wbcci members we have met. i guess that is why not being able to afford to go hurts so much...

froggies · 07-23-2004, 08:22 PM

okay, i just checked out the international form and i want to give the wbcci a giant round of applause from 20 hands around here....that is wonderful, impressive, and i guess i will renew my membership now as they are obviously making an effort and i so appreciate it. i wish i could make exclaimation points but still no caps,etc. on computer...but everyone here will be clapping when i tell them...thanks for telling me, i was having a rather bad day until this ray of sunshine....

summerkid · 07-23-2004, 08:32 PM

look at it this way, carrie .... you not only have enough people in your family to field both sides on a diamond, you might singlehandedly have enough bodies to influence the entire future of the WBCCI!

froggies · 07-23-2004, 08:52 PM

when people i don't know stop me and start yelling why do you have so many kids, i just say who is going to pay your social security and they quiet right down...

i just keep wondering if big families will influence airstream to make coaches that sleep 10, many sob companies already do, so there must be a market...problem would be trying to afford to pay for a new one like that..

still looking for my motorhome....since the original topic was value of classic moho....
what about one that had some sort of engine fire...that necessitated a new engine...and some interior damage to the dash, ac lines, and hydrolic lines...and was from the 80's era....however, had excellent exterior, i think a new/or rebuilt generator...needed some tlc in interior...

Silvertwinkie · 07-23-2004, 11:10 PM

Having been looking at Motorhomes (just looking and admiring), I'd have to say that to most of us, it's not **really** the money why we get into these things. It's owning one and how it feeds the soul just to look at it and know, yup, that puppy is ours. They are the coolest coaches (both Airstream and Argosy motorhomes) on the planet. Sure there are fancy ones out there, but at a mongo price. There are cheapo SOBs to be had to with less than 1/8 the personality of a dog house.

In the end, the person the buys based on an investment, will most likely be disappointed. Few vehicles appreciate in value. I always got a kick out of the local Airstream peddler that kept saying, buying an Airstream is an investment. I don't agree as it will loose value. Sure will last a long time and resale will be better, but we pay a premium for these things be it if we buy new, or we buy used and spend the $$ getting it up to the standard I see floating around the forums.

One last note, is that if Airstream ever builds the Classic motorhomes again, I will bet that they will be 6 figures or darn close.

Makes that 78 chassis with all the thousands of $$ in upgrades that much more attractive.

Anyway..that's just my .02

IPM · 07-24-2004, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froggies

not a people issue...the people were wonderful in our unit....it is more the cost.

Me too with just 3 kids. It was ok when I was working as an engineer. We could swing the high cost of 5 attending a ralley. Just did not go to many. Now, I'm going to medical school (RN). There's no way we can go to more than one ralley in a year.

I know at this years international in Michigan, a topic of discussion was how to attract families? One answer was to plan shorter events. That's good. Other answers only added to the cost of attending. Not good. Bad.

If families are to participate (that do not desire to spend lot$$ of cash) it needs to be simple and cheap. This family chose to camp with a USED CHEAP RV to avoid the expense of hotels and trips to expensive places.