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Old 03-18-2003, 01:52 PM   #15
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You have to be careful about supercharging, turbocharging, etc. There is somewhat of a science to it as I understand. You must know that not all engines can take the extra pressure of the ram air. In some cases you can do more damage than benifit. I am not saying this is the case here, but be careful adding components to an engine that were never designed for it.

Case in point was back in the 80s w/ GM diesels. The 350 blocks were not up to the compression and as such, cracked. Not really and apples to apples comparison, but you get the drift......

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Eric
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Old 03-18-2003, 02:23 PM   #16
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That's true with Turbo's. It has to work in conjunction with the compresion ratio. The more boost the lower the compression ratio needs to be. If you don't do it that way then you start have detontation problems and blow holes through pistons.
I play (or as soon as it sells did play) with Surpa's These folks pulling 500hp out ot of 3liter engine are often as low a 6.5:1 compression ratio. A run of the mill small block chevy is 8:1. I know people on race gas that can put down 652hp to the rear wheels but on super unleaded they have to tune down to about 475hp to keep from getting detonation and granading the engine.
The difference with a super charger is no lag. You always have some boost at all time. The problem is you have some loss because you have to drive the super charger. The higher the boost the more drag on the engine. So 4psi may equate to the same rear Wheel HP as 6 psi because of the extra effort it takes to drive the super charger.
A turbo charger scavanges it drive off the exhaust. But you have to get the exhaust moving to spin the compressor fast enough to make positive pressure so you get the turbo lag till the enigne gets about 1500rpm. Then when you let off the gas the waste gate opens and your back to square one till the impeller can get back up to speed
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Old 03-18-2003, 04:37 PM   #17
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Not to sound ignorant here, but doesn't lowering the compression ratio take a bit of work? I was under the impression that you'd need to change the pistons, the heads or both.

Seems like an awful lot to consider.

Eric
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Old 03-18-2003, 09:08 PM   #18
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Some individuals have found out the hard way with their thinking that if a little boost with the supercharger is good then more would make it even better. That is sorta like doing a ph, nitrogen, potassium and potash test of your garden soil, finding it a little low, adding some fertilizer, testing again and deciding that a little extra couldn't hurt. Some vegetables can't handle the high nitrogen, will grow an enormous amount of leaves but produce no vegetables at all. What am I saying here? Just don't overdo the supercharger boost and you will be fine.
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:43 PM   #19
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Craig,

Although I agree with the essence of your comments, I am still uncertain that adding a turbo or supercharger even in moderation in this situation is the best suggestion. If you tone it back you are just defeating the purpose of the main HP and torque gain.

The 454 is a hell of a motor, but in all honesty, I know of only a handful of folks that install turbos and superchargers. I know the "new" GM mantra is to add superchargers and call it an SS, but most of the real car nuts simply do the work. They mod the cam, modify the tuning, exhaust, headers, intake, heads, etc. There are few shortcuts when it comes to doing it right. Doing these mods, the HP and torque gains would be significant and he wouldn't have to worry about blowing the intake manifold to hell or blow out a gasket or put a hole in his piston.

I am sure that it's possible to add a supercharger or turbo to any engine. I guess I'm just too old school to buy into adding a turbo to a 454 when in fact that engine can get more power in more traditional ways with less overhead in the engine bay. Adding a bit of turbo is like being half pregnant IMHO. If you want the power, you gotta pay and do the work.



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Old 03-19-2003, 08:28 AM   #20
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A turbo moves a lot of heat high up on the engine. They already are mounted fairly high into the passenger area and sealing is marginal. Cooling air flow is not great, it jams into a large box filled by the engine. Turbochargers and superchargers both need large diameter free flowing tube. There is very little space under the engine cover. I added a low/medium rise manifold and 4" air cleaner and had to raise the engine cover 2" at the rear.
These are heavy vehicles and will slow down on big hills. Engine control system changes will be the cheapest because they are easiest.

John
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Old 03-19-2003, 09:57 AM   #21
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John,

Nice picture, beautiful engine.

I like the valve covers too is it really rated at 355HP or was that just the cool 454 sticker floating around?

I notice that engine compartment is different than any other 454 home base I have ever seen. In the Suburban there was plenty of room to roam. That engine bay looks extremely tight. Also, I noticed it has an electrical cooling fan. Did it ever have a mechanical primary? Space looks tight, but I didn't think in the early 70's they had electrical cooling fans. How in the heck do you get to your spark plugs?

I was under the impression that the mechanicals were the best when it came to moving heavy loads. What temp do you have it set to activate?

Eric
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Old 03-19-2003, 10:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silvertwinkie
Not to sound ignorant here, but doesn't lowering the compression ratio take a bit of work? I was under the impression that you'd need to change the pistons, the heads or both.

Seems like an awful lot to consider.

Eric
Yep number of ways' to do it. If you only need to lower it a little then you can use a thick metal head gasket. Then you get into head work or dished pistons.
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:14 AM   #23
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Based on that, I would find it hard to do that first before doing some of the bang for the buck bolt ons that are out there mentioned above.

Eric
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Old 03-19-2003, 11:18 AM   #24
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Eric

This is different than my SOB mh also. That one the floor is higher and the engine is basically under it. That makes for a lot more room for service.
The hp is pretty close (got to keep the competition guessing), but this was really built for torque. It has 2 electric fans, the top one comes on at 180, the bottom 202 or when the AC is used. The clutch fan is long gone, they always were too failure prone for me . Spark plugs aren't as bad as they look, just wait until everything is very cool and use a swivel socket.

John
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:29 PM   #25
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OKAY! First trip results with the Banks System installed....but first, here's a photo of the rig:



Now:

I first took a short 400 mile trip without MG on trailer on interstates & 2-lane highways as a benchmark....cruise control on & 70mph in 'OD'...thing flew...engine barely working....10mpg

Then, drove down to Gulf Shores from Huntsville pulling MG on the trailer...425 miles....cruise control on & 70mph in 'D' .....lots of torque, no problem with that speed or even going faster, hills didn't bother it at all (in fact, cruise control held 70mph going up hills).....8mpg (but, we stopped along road for an hour or so & ran generator for AC)

Finally, coming home from Gulf Shores pulling MG but tried something different.....cruise control on but 60mph in 'OD'....occassionally had to pull it down to 'D' for steeper hills...but when in 'OD' at 60mph, engine seemed almost at idle....used 11 fewer gallons of gas & increased to a little over 9mpg

......oh, filled up when I left Huntsville, again when I left Gulf Shores for return trip & then when I got home

So, I dunno....over my long trip to Alaska this summer I should be able to save a few gallons by dropping interstate speed to 60 &, of course, in Canada & Alaska I'll be doing less....&, the torque will definitely help out on the mountains in Canada & Alaska
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Old 03-25-2003, 02:52 PM   #26
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Autoist,

Great info. Thanks. Not to take this the wrong way, but didn't the banks system cost a bundle? If so, you would really need to take a number of trips to realize the savings. I am I wrong? I'm just trying to understand, not poke holes at your successes.

Thanks,

Eric
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Old 03-25-2003, 04:46 PM   #27
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Cost

Sure, my Banks system cost a bundle and I'll probably never make it up in gas mileage. OTOH, in my case, it was either more power or trade off a nearly new LT truck that didn't quite have the power I desired. The Banks was a lot cheaper than trading. I'm very content with the truck now.
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Old 03-25-2003, 09:35 PM   #28
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Silvertwinkie....No harm done....Out the door, kit, installation, tax & everything it was $3000 & change...work done by Madison RV in Huntsville, AL....will I recoup it? who knows? however, I'm planning a long (as in 12,000 mile) trip all over NW US, West Canada, & Alaska...if I can get 9 to 10 miles towing my MG on my trailer & not have any torque problems in the mountains, I'm happy!

Plus, I got lots of admiring looks & questions in the RV Park at Gulf Shores and whenever I stopped around other RV's.....everybody sees that neat "Banks Power" emblem neatly displayed on each side of the rig & on the rear! Good way to make lots of new friends with it!
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