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Old 10-31-2002, 01:58 PM   #1
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Heat protection

Ok I am bringing this up again- found this product on the web, and thought I would get your opinions- I looked into ceramic paper also, it just didn't seem like it would do what we need to cut down on engine heat coming in.
This product is made for wheel wells, over mufflers, etc.
http://www.coolandquiet.com/product_detail.cfm?Prod=4

(copied text below)
"
this thin heat and sound barrier is made from fiberglass and polyester with a tough aluminum facing for maximum insulation. A convenient pressure-sensitive adhesive makes it easy to secure ZeroClearance to your vehicle's exterior - closest to those troublesome hotspots. Even when space is tight, ZeroClearance can significantly improve the comfort level of your ride. Durable - Tough aluminum surface is strong enough to be used on the outside of the floorpan and other exterior areas - closest to the source of intrusive heat or noise.
Versatile - Provides superior thermal and acoustic protection. Can be used on vehicle floorpan and wheel wells to dampen vibrations and insulate interior. Pressure-sensitive adhesive conveniently secures material to vehicle.
Flexible - 3.2mm (1/8") thickness allows ZeroClearance to be used in areas where space is at a premium or attachment methods are limited. Highly formable and easy to cut to desired shape.
Effective - The same high-performance materials today's automotive manufacturers use. Proven to significantly reduce heat and noise and improve vehicle comfort level. "

so whaddayathink? good idea?
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Old 10-31-2002, 03:10 PM   #2
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The first thing that came to my mind was the temperature that the doghouse reaches on a hot day and after a long hard pull. Except for above the mufflers most of the areas they mentioned are pretty cool comparatively. I emailed them about this and will let you know their answer.

OTOH, in a thread a couple weeks ago about wood interior walls Peter mentioned contact adhesive releases at a relatively low temp considering what the interior of these can reach. I emailed 3M and Gorilla glue twice each and never heard back from either. Maybe this outfit will be better.

Does your cover have a gasket? Just wondering how much is heat soaking through the metal or if the fan if forcing hot air inside.

John
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Old 10-31-2002, 04:50 PM   #3
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heat transfer

My dog house had the original metal wire mesh to hold insulation in place. In other places I used the 1/8 galvanized wire mesh available at hardware stores.
I have been trying to convince our gold record holding musician. Alansd for some time now that the best and imho only way to keep the heat out of the cabin area is to get the dash A/C working.
That is what makes the difference in 100 degree weather...
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Old 10-31-2002, 05:49 PM   #4
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Interesting. My Argosy had 3/8" plywood screwed right to the metal, no insulation, with carpeting over that. Must be on of the 'trials' I have always heard they did on Argosy before moving (or not) it to Airstream.

I am glad to see AlanSD doing this. This is one of the things I have been thinking about for awhile. I will know what to do once he gets it right.

John
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Old 11-01-2002, 11:19 AM   #5
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Response from Zero Clearance

Received this reply to my question about the adhesive:

John, Thanks for your interest *in our products.

Zero Clearance should work well in your doghouse application . I am assuming that there will be at least one inch clearance between the hot engine parts and the doghouse. We test the product in direct contact with a 400 degree F heat source with no adhesive failure.

Please let me know if you have other questions.

Jim Carolan
Lydall Ecommerce
603-430-0020


I don't know if you were planning on using it on the engine side or the motor home interior side. I was thinking motorhome side as the engine side would be oily (cleanup for good adhesion), there is not much room at all on mine between the engine and doghouse and even changing plugs would probably tear it up.

From everything I have seen it is best to use different types of insulation in layers. The outfit that makes the ceramic paper also makes a liquid that applies like paint, I like this for the engine side, a layer of the Zero Clearance on the interior side with a sound/heat padding over this. That sort of blows Brett's idea of a plexiglass engine cover, but I can always make one for show. Oh yea, and the dash air.

So whaddayathink?
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Old 11-01-2002, 12:08 PM   #6
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my doghouse has insulation on the inside, a thermal blanket with a rubberized coating that is in good shape. The area I wanted to insulate is under the flooring and in front of the passenger and drivers seating areas. It seems like a lot of extra heat and sound comes thru these areas.
The sound dampening would be a bonus as the engine noise is
higher than Iwould like it to be.
I hope to glue to the outside area underneath these sections, and have looked into a few products. The ceramic paper seemed ok for heat , but I wasn't sure if it would do much for the sound. The zero clearance type stuff seems like it would be a good choice. There are thermal blankets for cars on Ebay for 12 bucks for a 4 foot sheet, but I would think this product will work better.
And yeah Peter I want to charge my a/c also, although it was really ok in the cabin on my summer trip, except for the 96+ degree days.
I have to say thought the engine temp never got over 160-180 much at all, even in the mountains.
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Old 11-01-2002, 12:59 PM   #7
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Don't know how much this will help as it is becoming obvious to me that there is a fair amount of difference between Airstream and Argosy, I don't know if it is years or just the models, but here goes.

The picture is of mine today. Where the plywood floor ends is where it originally ended, the passenger and driver area came to there. This was boxed in with 2 long narrow pieces of plywood, one upright the other laying flat on the large tab you see to the right of the picture (4 of them altogether across the width). To the right and left of the transmission were originally open, I made the panels that are there now. The floor under the seating was plywood wrapped in aluminum. Basically all that kept the fumes, heat, etc out were these 4 pieces of wood. The white horizontal panels to each side of the opening were also not there, the bottom skin was riveted to the bottom of the tube frame for the floor.

John
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Old 11-01-2002, 05:06 PM   #8
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A different picture that may make it easier to understand how open this is. The XX is the tube where the living area floor begins and the driver's area floor ended. The upright plywood panel ran across this, everything in front of it was open to the engine and road. When I tore this apart both sides were full of gravel, dirt, whatever the tires had thrown up. The pixellated tubes above is where the aluminum wrapped plywood was that made the floor for the driver. If you look under yours and see something similar then I can understand why you are having trouble with heat and noise. Also look up in the wheel wells directly under the windows. The plastic panel with the armrest was the only thing that seperated the interior from the road noise and heat. Maybe another good place to seal, I made panels to fill this space. My cowl was nothing but a relative flat piece of steel. It did not have any sound or heat proofing on it, really was nothing but a big piece of rusty metal.

John
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Old 11-01-2002, 07:58 PM   #9
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Heat protection

that cool and quiet stuff looka really terrific but 14 sq ft. looks like about $60? I found similar but somewhat less terriffic stuff for about $16 for a 25'x16" roll. Real easy to staple onto the belly. I'm started with one layer at r value of about 5 . I wanted some insulation but can't justify the hassle and sponge effect of fiberglass right now---we plan on avoiding extremes but I could always add "big pink" or another layer of "reflectix "
(driving the price double) if neccessary. I've heard that this is valuable for stopping heat buld-up from below when parking on hot asphalt lot situations. Found ease of installation and results look like a comfy alluminum quilt. www.reflectixinc.com
tod47d
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Old 11-01-2002, 08:21 PM   #10
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thanks guys. The photos do help to show what I see form the outside when I crawl underneath. felt like additional insulation was definitely called for. The prospect of quieting the interior somewhat is tempting. There is some wind noise around the side windows, but most of the problem is the engine noise.
This will be my winter project, to improve that facet of the AS drive.
I saw where a gmc motorhome had been redone with serious soundproofing, and it got me thinking about it.
The reflectix looks similiar to the stuff I made my windsheild and side window covers out of, will it stand the heat of the exhaust manifold nearby?
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Old 11-01-2002, 08:54 PM   #11
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Exclamation (not THAT much)heat protection

No, our Safari has no exhaust manifold that would easily melt this foil-bubble-foil reflectix! Another note- remember that this will conduct electricity from any cracked or uninsulated wiring.
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Old 11-01-2002, 08:57 PM   #12
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Reflectix is from the housing industry, looks like heavy duty bubble wrap with foil on each side. I used it between my inner and outer rear wheel wells and the 2 sections of my generator cover. I know you can also get it in 48" widths. If you used it on the living area side of the doghouse it would be ok, but I don't think the plastic would hold up too long on the engine side near the manifold.

Do you remember where you saw the GMC soundproofing? I would like to look at that.

John
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Old 11-02-2002, 08:04 AM   #13
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I'm running 1 picture behind on my posts here, bear with me. I have tons of semi organized pictures and it takes some time to dig through them and find what I need.

If you look at the RH side of this one you can see how the cowl/floor does not meet the body. The plastic panel with the armrests is the only thing that seals the gap from the interior. This gap runs from the plate that forms the dash support all the way to the front main rib. It gets pretty big as you can see.

One more place to check, from what I found on mine. There is a panel from the doghouse lid to the firewall that the hinge mounts to. This panel was about 3/8" wider than the bottom part of the doghouse which mounts to the floor. When they assembled it they screwed the rh to the bottom which left a 3/8" gap on the left. They tried to pull it up with sheet metal screws but it didn't really work too well.

John
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Old 11-02-2002, 08:29 AM   #14
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John,
they did do a lot changes over the years.
I had that entire area apart and in the places where you only had plywood, steel plates were used. The cabin floor has a thin aluminum plate that goes from the doghouse all the way to the sides. A black insulating/soundproofing material was used inbetween the alu and the plywood floor.
The doghouse and the area in front of the doghouse is all build with steel plates and is relatively tight.
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