63 Safari - It 'Bee' Traded (#8671)

[InsideOut]

We have done it both ways.

On our '64 we removed the floor tiles and only patched the floor (no additional plywood patches needed) where it was soft by the door - which really wasn't much at all - some Rot Doctor & sanding was all that was needed. The trailer was unadulterated on the interior - down to the original Zolatone - it would have been a shame to remove the interior panels and then have to re-Zolatone the whole thing - just because of a few small patches. Removing the asbestos tiles is no easy task. The mastic that holds them down is very tough and difficult to remove, and they really do have to be removed before new floorcovering goes down in order to "do it right". The problem is with removing the tiles, we gouged the plywood in places and then had to sand and patch it to get a smooth surface for the new floorcovering. And then there is the issue of dealing with the friable asbestos.

On our '56 we replaced the entire plywood floor, shell on. The original interior had been painted several times by a PO so to take off the interior panels in order to replace the plywood was no big deal, they had to be stripped & re-Zolatoned anyways. One interior panel even needed to be replaced due to the number of "extra" wholes that had been added trying to stabilize the dinette - literally, 100 or so unnecessary rivets. It ended up having a broken aluminum channel behind the panel which had to be replaced anyways.

While replacing the entire floor is a bit drastic for only a couple of soft spots, it does put your mind at ease KNOWING you are going forward with the rest of your restoration with a solid new floor and no surprises - it will last another 45-50 years. Also, we eliminated the need to remove the tile in friable sections - we just took it out with the plywood it was attached to.

The decision is really your own to make, but we do not regret our decisions on either trailer. If we were to do this a third time (no plans to do so at this time) I would have to say it would depend on the trailer itself - weighing the effort to benefits. Each trailer will be different...

We don't really have a lot of space or money to just throw at the project, but replacing the floor is more a time and space proposition than a cost. The actual cost is not that much if you are doing it yourself - but the time investment is obviously more involved.

Just my 2-cents ~

Shari

[Alumanutz]

Scott, as you can see on my blog, I have just replaced a few areas of the floor instead of the entire thing, BUT. I have not seen anyone mention it on here but I have found that the original plywood extends past the outriggers and inch or so. On my trailer it seems that the plywood on the edges has slightly sagged. This has allowed the trailer body to drop a small amount. Like pulling your hat down too far on your head. When I try to slide the new 5/8ths plywood under the c channel it is very tight. I have had to sand a slight bevel (most of the top ply)on the plywood to get it to go under. I am not really concerned since the area is small but it seems to do it right, do the whole floor.
When doing pieces, I cut scrap plywood about four inches wide. Apply sub floor adhesive and slide it under the original floor about two inches, then drive in a bunch of wood screws. About one per inch. Then when you drop in your patch, apply adhesive to the top of the outriggers and the splice plates. Once again, drive screws in about 1 per inch. The patches end up incredibly strong. You can see photos of it on my blog. I used square drive screws from an online place called McFeeleys. Check them out. I got the elevator bolts and interior rivets from Fastenall. They are online also.

NUTZ

[62overlander]

I think that you might want to investigate a little more around the salon window on the street side. Often the rot is under the channel and you do not see it until you lift the channel. Try putting the ice pick in at an angle to probe under the channel. If you see dark plywood anywhere, there is rot. It might not be a hole, and it might seem firm, but the organisms that eat wood are slowly doing their thing.

Asbestos tiles are fairly misunderstood too. The percentage of asbestos is very low. To have a negative exposer you must create dust such as cutting them with a saw. Just breaking them does not make them friable. A heat gun on the tile will loosen the glue in just a few seconds. You can also rent a heater that will do a few square feet at a time from most rental centers. Most of mine just pooped right up with a wide putty knife.

[purman]

Hey scott, You can look here Remodel of my 68' Ambassador. You can see some of my patches... I did 3 the front one is where the water tank was.. in front of the door, and I didn't show the patch but the kitchen under the fringe was pretty bad, it had concrete board down under that 1/8 inch ply by the PO . I will also have to slide slide about 4' of ply in the back for the bathroom as it is rotted out...

Before I put the new floor in the front I covered all the plywood, old and new, with a marine varnish so if water comes from the top it won't penetrate.. I also coated the bottom of the ply I put in. But I have spray in foam under my trailer so the plywood is pretty perfected from underneath.

Good luck.

[VIKING]

I'm looking at the same question right now with my safari. I only have about ten to twenty square feet of bad flooring so I know I could repair it easily. The hard part is I know I will need to pull the cabinets and appliances to do the repair, so at that point I have to weigh weather it's worth the time to pull the rest up. I think it's probably giong to be a whole new floor for me. I expect that the old stuff under the floor is needing attention after 44 years and I really want to know that there is a good, solid frame under all of the rest of my work when I'm done. I probably won't pull the shell off though, unless I find a very good reason to do so. I can't imagine putting new cabinets, appliances, floor finishes etc. on top of a questionable foundation, and I already know that I don't want to do this project twice on the same trailer. Life is too short. I will be using marine grade plywood, and wrapping the perimeter 6 to 8 inches with thin aluminum sheet before slipping it under the "c" channel bullet-proof 50 year floor!
Good luck with your project,
Rich

[greywolf]

Hey Viking, If you can do the repairs without needing to remove the shell, that'd be the way to go. Besides needing an enclosed shop with a very level floor, it is very difficult getting the shell back onto the frame and have everything level and matched up correctly.

[goransons]

Good news (I think). I spent a little time this evening getting what little garage space I have back (actually put tools back where they go) so I could prep some parts to ship out and discovered the furnace (which is removed at this point) is a Suburban NT30 SP that looks like its in pretty good shape, just ever-so-slight surface rust on the outside case where it was sitting on wet plywood. Connections inside as far as burners look good, as does the circuit board area, etc. Know I will have to find and retrofit an original outside cover, but this should be a good bonus in the restoration costs area. Looks to be fairly new, at least less than 10 years. Not sure how long the SP model has been available, but maybe someone knows. Don't remember the serial number off hand but it is 6 digits, 186xxx I think.

[goransons]

While we pay a few bills and wait to get the hinge back I thought I'd get some power in the trailer so we have working lights and outlets. Safety first I've been going through checking all connections and undoing some in the field or behind the barn repairs.

Several weird additions due to the univolt were made. There is some very minimal rust on box for the breaker, only where things had been scuffed through the paint. I need to find out if that breaker box still has breakers available or not, wouldn't mind replacing those, repainting the box and reinstalling it. If breakers are no longer available then we'll replace the box I guess.

The good news: all 12v and 110 wire I have found in the trailer (other than these few modifications I am removing) have been good, still pliable plastic insulated copper wire. I will able to access all outlets when bottom panels are off for floor replacement, so either new romex with the 3rd wire ground will be installed, or a 3rd (insulated) wire will be pulled to safely add 3 prong outlets that are grounded independantly of the shell.

This trailer has the completely seperate 12v and 110 circuits, with each fan having a "city power - off - battery" switch and a transformer located nearby to step down city to 12v DC. Every light fixture (original ones) have a 12v and a 110 light bulb, generally a small 12v switch on the side of the fixture and a wall mounted 110 switch nearby.

At some point a univolt (which currently works I might ad) was placed under the street side goucho and back fed into the 12v system across the trailer from the original battery location under the kitchen sink area.

I kind of like the novelty of the 110 or 12v switch idea, and with only needing 2 small 12v dc transformers to keep the system I think probably will, however I have a couple questions.

1. Does anyone have a source for these transformers or info off of any existing fan motors that would give me an idea of amps/watts I need in a transformer to do the job (both fan locations are missing the fan motors themselves). The trailer has 2 transformers, 1 at the bathroom area roof vent, one in the kitchen area, and possibly a 3rd around the water pump area, but I haven't made it that far foward in the trailer.

2. How was the 12v system originally fused? At the location of the original battery (which also had wires for the thermostat, furnace fan and 110 power there is no evidence of a fuse panel of any kind. There appears to be a small circuit breaker on the wall (covered with lots of paint), but was this trailer really a 1 breaker 12v system?

3. I'm also trying to figure out the wiring for the kitchen fan switch (the city-off-battery one) since it has been disconnected at some point. I assume the center terminal of an on-off-on switch should be the fan motor, and the terminal behind city would be the 12v dc coming from the 110 to 12v transformer and the terminal behind the battery would be a 12v dc power source from the battery correct?

4. Charging the battery:

With these transformers, I really don't necessarily need the univolt (which would likely be upgraded to an intelipower model) but do want something to keep the 12v system charged, and run a new circuit for the 3 way refrigerator we'll install.

5. Grounding:

the 12 volt system seems to all ground every fixture to the body, which means there must be a master ground terminal location (I'd hope) but I see no obvious location for this, does anyone have any suggestions?

6. Prewiring

Would this trailer have been prewired for roof top air? I see trailers of this era with vintage roof top units, and though we want 8671 to be pretty much exactly as it was in 63/64 for the caravan, we will need air conditioning in this unit because it isn't uncommon in eastern Washington for it to get well over 100 degrees in the summer. If yes would that wire be in the wall behind that breaker box or would it be expected to already be pulled through the skin.

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by goransons

6. Prewiring

Would this trailer have been prewired for roof top air? I see trailers of this era with vintage roof top units, and though we want 8671 to be pretty much exactly as it was in 63/64 for the caravan

I don't know if all ASs of this era were prewired, but, the Ross's 62 Ambassador 6472 which was on this caravan has a Dometic AC which can be seen in photos of the caravan. In Thank you Marco Polo the book states some of trailers had AC, but they had a separate parking area for them due to generator noise.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Scott... I forgot the camera, but yes, I have the correct "ohio" lights in the rear.
Marc

[goransons]

Awesome Marc, that's definately good news. Keep me in the loop on your progess and what I'll owe you for shipping!

[goransons]

modifications reversed, new power cord coming in, after a few PM's and some time with a volt meter I sorted it all out. 12v works too (though I'm going to find new transformers to replace the old ones.

Helps us say "Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays"

[62overlander]

Just curious... is fixing the wiring a little premature for a trailer needing the floor replaced and frame work done? I guess any work is good, but you might be ripping a lot of it out when you get in there for real. Not trying to pee on your campfire, sorry.

[goransons]

lol well in a way yes, but also no. Since we plan on returning it to as original as possible searching out how each thing works, and what should be there and what shouldn't before we're messing with finished surfaces is important, plus in the limited space we have to work, having available outlets and lights to work under are helpful since most of my time to work on the trailer is in the evenings.

All existing wire I've found looks good, so we're not too inclined to rip it all out. Especially with mechanical systems, I find its best to know exactly what you're working with before you take it apart, that way you know what "back together" is supposed to be. Never having worked on a pre-univolt type system, if I had ripped out what was here without figuring it out, I'd have been in trouble!

Soon we will be removing some lower skins in the rear to remove flooring at which time we'll upgrade what needs to be done and add additional circuits as needed. Does that mean disconnecting a few wires while work is done, YEP! but we'll know what we're doing (or more so) when it goes back together.

But in spirit yes our plans aren't to do work we have to throw out later and your point is well taken