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Old 12-02-2008, 04:20 AM   #41
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Shari,
Thanks for the detailed response. I have seen Scott's trailer in person. I have seen each of these different lamps you note in person. Any of the choices you list would be "more correct" than the obvious recessed replacements that are currently on 8671 and my gut tells me that all of them are large enough to cover the holes that will be left when the replacement lamps are removed. But it would be wise to measure diameters of the existing replacement lamps and any proposed "original's" to be put back on the trailer before the swap is started, just to be safe. Certainly in the current state, Scott needs full lamp assemblies to make the swap, not just lenses, so the choice is maybe need not be as precise as if he were only replacing lenses.

From an originality perspective, I cannot say what is correct for a 1963 Ohio built Safari, but I can say that the old '66 Ohio built 26' Overlander that I used to own had the second style Autolamp 575's on it. They had "taller" wedding cake lenses than the earlier "575" designs, and I think the date code on them was "63" (1963) vs. "61" (1961) for the first 575 style. I am pretty sure the "61" lenses would not work on the lamp bases designed for the "63" versions, but the other way might be possible. Your photo appears be of the earlier 575 design with the "lower" wedding cake height.

In the end, I think availability may be a contributing factor in deciding what the "new" replacements could be for 8671. But I will say that sometimes these types of full lamp assemblies do come up for sale on eBay in case Scott wants to wait for a specific version.
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:51 AM   #42
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I am very impressed with the actions you have taken. I sure hope you are proud of your self because you deserve to be.
What 62Overlander said, times 2. Thanks for taking on this project!! I wish I had money to send to you, butt all my money is being eaten up by a certain 1954 year old 25' lady. Good luck to you - that just doesn't seem to cover my feelings tho - but never the less, good luck .
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:53 AM   #43
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Bargman 99???

I have been told that my '64 California built Safari has Bargman 99's. Here's the picture of what is currently on the unit. I do not know if these are original. Are these 99's?
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:59 AM   #44
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Wait!! I went back to the original picture, blew it up, and in fact they are Autolamp 575's!!! Boy am I glad you found this InsideOut! You have just found another owner that will need new lenses. I'll place my order with yours when VTS is ready to reproduce them. I sure hope my can hold out. I am in the process of finding the right LED replacement under the original lenses. Back to square one, but so glad InsideOut caught this!!!

-Tim
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:04 AM   #45
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I have been told that my '64 California built Safari has Bargman 99's. Here's the picture of what is currently on the unit. I do not know if these are original. Are these 99's?
Nope, your lamps are the early style (1961) low profile wedding cake Auto Lamp 575. You can read the embossed printing on the lens to confirm this.

But even without reading the embossed printing, you can tell it is an Auto Lamp 575 because of the 4 screw holes used to attach the lens to the base. The 575 actually has 8 holes as you can see, including the 4 additional "thru" holes in the lens for clearance to rivet it to the lamp base to the body with the lens attached. Unfortunately those extra 4 holes can allow water to enter the lamp - probably not the best design for durability, but great for ease of manufacture. Definitely want to make sure one of the "thru" holes is at the bottom when installing these babies to keep the lamp from retaining water!

Edit: You posted your response while I was typing mine. Good catch!
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:10 AM   #46
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As an aside, I have heard of people making their own lamp bases for one or the other wedding cake style tail lamps using paint can lids and new bulb sockets from an auto parts store. I guess you have to check the diameter to see which of the wedding cake style lenses this might work for.

Just thought you'd want to know if your bases are too far gone to be restored.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:45 AM   #47
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On my way out the door I took a measuring tape and checked the ghost lines on the body. If the assumption is that the ring itself is where the lense rubbed the body then they were 6 7/8, if you assume the ring is where sealant or grime collected around it (there is some evidence of silicone residue) then they would have set inside that ring at 6 1/2. Either would be far superior to what is there now, which is an approximately 5" recessed rubber grommet style truck light. Good to know there are that many different options out there. Not for sure which ones Marc is removing but in either case with new sockets it should look great.
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:06 AM   #48
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As an aside, I have heard of people making their own lamp bases for one or the other wedding cake style tail lamps using paint can lids and new bulb sockets from an auto parts store. I guess you have to check the diameter to see which of the wedding cake style lenses this might work for.

Just thought you'd want to know if your bases are too far gone to be restored.
The Bargman 99's are the lenses that match up with the paint can lids...which IMO would be the easiest to reproduce if it really doesn't matter which ones are 100% accurate. They can be built from the lids & parts and the lenses can be purchased, I believe the VTS website confirms that ~

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Old 12-02-2008, 08:09 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ts8501 View Post
Wait!! I went back to the original picture, blew it up, and in fact they are Autolamp 575's!!! Boy am I glad you found this InsideOut! You have just found another owner that will need new lenses. I'll place my order with yours when VTS is ready to reproduce them. I sure hope my can hold out. I am in the process of finding the right LED replacement under the original lenses. Back to square one, but so glad InsideOut caught this!!!

-Tim
Awe shucks ~ thanks!

Let's keep our fingers crossed that there are more of "us" out there!

Shari
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:57 AM   #50
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I just also heard back from Cecil, the gentleman that owned the trailer a couple people ago (he sold it to the guy that ebayed it). He has the original antenna for the TV and we'll be working with him to get it sent out to us. Joe are you nearby him?
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:43 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by wkerfoot View Post
Scott,

Can your machinist make the three pieces which make up this hinge on my 1954 Liner?

By the way, they are mirror image of each other.

Bill

bill, he emailed me back and said yes he could definately make it. I asked for a very ball park estimate on cost (he'll need the physical hinges to copy to get an exact price) and hope to hear back soon.
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Old 12-02-2008, 11:10 AM   #52
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bill, he emailed me back and said yes he could definately make it. I asked for a very ball park estimate on cost (he'll need the physical hinges to copy to get an exact price) and hope to hear back soon.
Thanks for the update. Please ask about timing also.

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Old 12-02-2008, 11:34 AM   #53
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Wow, who'd thought that lights could be so complicated! Well, I'm pretty sure mine are the correct ones... My trailer is an Ohio trailer. Also for kicks, I'm curious how close in serial number our two trailers are. I never really took note of the serial number. I'll take pics hopefully Friday when I go visit the trailer.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:59 PM   #54
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Thumbs up I wanna help a tiny bit too...

Although we were the second owners I believe these are the original lights.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:47 PM   #55
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Wow Leo! You lucky dawg!!!! I musta dozed off on that search lately...oh well! Hope they are put to good use, if not - you know who would love to take them off your hands!

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Old 12-02-2008, 07:18 PM   #56
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floor questions

First order will be bulb seal, glazing materials etc to replace the broken glass, keep the jelousie glass from falling out with the little disks, and get that hinge on, then we're airstream play money'd out for awhile, but am starting to really figure out how far we need to go.

The question follows the background info, please stay with me.

I went around the trailer with an ice pick and only got it to stick in two areas, where Inland Andy mentioned would have been the original battery location under the kitchen sink area (next to the furnace) and under the black tank and tub in the back two feet of the trailer.

This area (picture #1) was stuffed full of cellulose insulation, brick solid. Cleaned that up, and believe it or not, after cleaning that all out and looking in there, very little surface rust on the cross members (I imagined it would be gone totally). The black edges of the tile isn't wet or water marks, its the original tile glue (which yes it and the tile are almost certainly loaded with Absestos.

The rear area I didn't photo, but its the typical rot around the body mounting area and around the drain of the tub & toilet.

Photo #2 shows a weak point in the floor, inside you can see the heat register pipe, visable also is the kitchen sink drain pipe, but also there are many holes in the belly pan, about pencil diameter and in a pattern. I assume this was the original fresh air intake for the propane refrigerator since this was the stock location (elivated on the wheel well). The bottom of the two exterior doors (see photo 3)behind the refrigerator (I assume for lighting and or basic install access) has been "retrofitted" at some point with an aluminum louver over the door skin and cut through (with not a lot of care on the cutting). I can't imagine with as small as this little floor intake area, and its location behind the tire that it would provide enough air, but perhaps it does fine. Haven't decided if we'll leave the louvers or remake that small access door. The extra air intake might good for the new refrigerator (original was long gone but will be replaced with like sized unit)

The weak point in the floor, is some flex as you step towards that opening, since the end of the panel (towards the hole) isn't reinforced underneith. Holds a screw really well, can't get an ice pick to stick, isn't noticably swolen but flexes some (perhaps I really needs a cross brace inside).

Here is the question:

Is there any real reason to replace all plywood if the majority of the trailer is very sound?


ok, and before you answer, keep in mind we're going to take our time on this restoration, but don't have unlimited resources, or space for that matter. Of course we'll pull plywood in the rear area as far foward as it takes to do the job right to repair that damage (including some frame damage). The area around the kitchen, roughly the same size as the kichen cabinet can easily be cut back to frame members and reinstalled in that area. We will pull lower sheet metal in those areas to correctly bolt etc.

I realize too that not everyone will agree here, and I'm not offended by that, (so please don't be either), I just want to hear opinions we can weigh the pros and cons, including things we haven't thought about.
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Old 12-02-2008, 10:37 PM   #57
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You're right, everybody is going to have their own opinion...

We have done it both ways.

On our '64 we removed the floor tiles and only patched the floor (no additional plywood patches needed) where it was soft by the door - which really wasn't much at all - some Rot Doctor & sanding was all that was needed. The trailer was unadulterated on the interior - down to the original Zolatone - it would have been a shame to remove the interior panels and then have to re-Zolatone the whole thing - just because of a few small patches. Removing the asbestos tiles is no easy task. The mastic that holds them down is very tough and difficult to remove, and they really do have to be removed before new floorcovering goes down in order to "do it right". The problem is with removing the tiles, we gouged the plywood in places and then had to sand and patch it to get a smooth surface for the new floorcovering. And then there is the issue of dealing with the friable asbestos.

On our '56 we replaced the entire plywood floor, shell on. The original interior had been painted several times by a PO so to take off the interior panels in order to replace the plywood was no big deal, they had to be stripped & re-Zolatoned anyways. One interior panel even needed to be replaced due to the number of "extra" wholes that had been added trying to stabilize the dinette - literally, 100 or so unnecessary rivets. It ended up having a broken aluminum channel behind the panel which had to be replaced anyways.

While replacing the entire floor is a bit drastic for only a couple of soft spots, it does put your mind at ease KNOWING you are going forward with the rest of your restoration with a solid new floor and no surprises - it will last another 45-50 years. Also, we eliminated the need to remove the tile in friable sections - we just took it out with the plywood it was attached to.

The decision is really your own to make, but we do not regret our decisions on either trailer. If we were to do this a third time (no plans to do so at this time) I would have to say it would depend on the trailer itself - weighing the effort to benefits. Each trailer will be different...

We don't really have a lot of space or money to just throw at the project, but replacing the floor is more a time and space proposition than a cost. The actual cost is not that much if you are doing it yourself - but the time investment is obviously more involved.

Just my 2-cents ~

Shari
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Old 12-02-2008, 11:35 PM   #58
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Scott, as you can see on my blog, I have just replaced a few areas of the floor instead of the entire thing, BUT. I have not seen anyone mention it on here but I have found that the original plywood extends past the outriggers and inch or so. On my trailer it seems that the plywood on the edges has slightly sagged. This has allowed the trailer body to drop a small amount. Like pulling your hat down too far on your head. When I try to slide the new 5/8ths plywood under the c channel it is very tight. I have had to sand a slight bevel (most of the top ply)on the plywood to get it to go under. I am not really concerned since the area is small but it seems to do it right, do the whole floor.
When doing pieces, I cut scrap plywood about four inches wide. Apply sub floor adhesive and slide it under the original floor about two inches, then drive in a bunch of wood screws. About one per inch. Then when you drop in your patch, apply adhesive to the top of the outriggers and the splice plates. Once again, drive screws in about 1 per inch. The patches end up incredibly strong. You can see photos of it on my blog. I used square drive screws from an online place called McFeeleys. Check them out. I got the elevator bolts and interior rivets from Fastenall. They are online also.

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Old 12-03-2008, 05:26 AM   #59
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I think that you might want to investigate a little more around the salon window on the street side. Often the rot is under the channel and you do not see it until you lift the channel. Try putting the ice pick in at an angle to probe under the channel. If you see dark plywood anywhere, there is rot. It might not be a hole, and it might seem firm, but the organisms that eat wood are slowly doing their thing.

Asbestos tiles are fairly misunderstood too. The percentage of asbestos is very low. To have a negative exposer you must create dust such as cutting them with a saw. Just breaking them does not make them friable. A heat gun on the tile will loosen the glue in just a few seconds. You can also rent a heater that will do a few square feet at a time from most rental centers. Most of mine just pooped right up with a wide putty knife.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:17 AM   #60
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Hey scott, You can look here http://www.airforums.com/forums/f44/...dor-44644.html You can see some of my patches... I did 3 the front one is where the water tank was.. in front of the door, and I didn't show the patch but the kitchen under the fringe was pretty bad, it had concrete board down under that 1/8 inch ply by the PO . I will also have to slide slide about 4' of ply in the back for the bathroom as it is rotted out...

Before I put the new floor in the front I covered all the plywood, old and new, with a marine varnish so if water comes from the top it won't penetrate.. I also coated the bottom of the ply I put in. But I have spray in foam under my trailer so the plywood is pretty perfected from underneath.

Good luck.
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