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Old 07-09-2018, 08:39 PM   #715
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2017 23' Flying Cloud
Bartlett , Tennessee
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My 29 year old son was over this evening. I told him about pulling the sub-woofer and asked if it will cause problems. He asked to see the sub-woofer. He pointed out the the sub-woofer had 2 control knobs on it labelled "GAIN" and "FREQ." He said that means the "amp" is probably in the sub-woofer so I will have no problems. I looked confused, so he translated. He said "you are fine."
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:19 AM   #716
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Big question to 23 front bed owners. We went to the dealer this weekend thinking about upgrading to a 23 from our 19 FC. We are family of 4, kids currently 2 and 5 boy and girl, and we do mostly short range Weeknd camping. We don't like the bed or the toilet in the 19, bed is short and I have to jump over wife all the time, and at my 5 10 it is impossible to use the toilet without leaving the door open. The thing is that on paper the 23 FB was perfect, but seeing it at the dealer brought lots of doubts because of the table dessign. The tablet seems to slide off easily and I can see my kids sending the food spelled any time, moreover the unit we saw didn't had an stable pedestal, the table seems flimsy and shakes, therefore we went to the 25 and everything was better but tongue weight and overall measures are way higher than our current right, so we are full of doubts. How problematic is the table on a daily use?? Does it become more shaky if turned into a bed every day?? Thank you año un avance
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:50 AM   #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallego View Post
Big question to 23 front bed owners. <snip> The thing is that on paper the 23 FB was perfect, but seeing it at the dealer brought lots of doubts because of the table design. The tablet seems to slide off easily and I can see my kids sending the food spelled any time, moreover the unit we saw didn't had an stable pedestal, the table seems flimsy and shakes, therefore we went to the 25 and everything was better but tongue weight and overall measures are way higher than our current right, so we are full of doubts. How problematic is the table on a daily use?? Does it become more shaky if turned into a bed every day?? Thank you año un avance
I’ve been on the fence between a 23cb and a 23fb - and noticed the same with regards to the table. Have viewed two in person (a FC and a Intl. Serenity) and both featured incredibly wobbly tables. Thought I had bad luck, but perhaps not.

Have you been in a 23cb with the folding bathroom door? It significantly increases leg room, though nothing compared to the 23fb bathroom which is very nice.

The 23fb has a spacious bathroom, larger grey tank (30 vs. 21 in the CB), lower tongue weight (200# less than the CB), and the RV queen bed. However, it also has less windows (12 vs. 16 in the CB), a much narrower walkway, a less stable table, and is segmented into three distinct areas: bathroom, dining, bedroom (vs. the very open, airy feeling CB).

I wish the 23CB had a larger grey tank - that would be about perfect for my needs. Anyway, sorry for the off topic - perhaps 23FB owners can chime in about the table stability.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:19 PM   #718
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The table is shaky, because the slides are loose. Unfortunately, they are designed that way and the lock is poor as well. The pedestal is rigid. Solution 1 is to replace slides with precise assemblies. They are available from companies that sell precision machine tooling components.

Thompson sells rod systems with precision circular ball bearings as well as these microguide slides.

https://www.thomsonlinear.com/en/pro..._PR_MICROGUIDE

Other similar products are available from less expensive sources. A visit to a machine tool or mechanical design show might bear fruit. Salvage components would be good enough for this project.

Solution 2 is to eliminate the slides and mount the tabletop without them.

Solution 3 is to use the table as is. We are doing OK.

However, the EITR is that the bed is not a walk around. It is more space and you can install a full size queen with a little extension to the foot, but you will still need to crawl over. The 25 is likely same, but the 27 addresses the problem.

Suggest you spend some more time looking at your options. Note, the older coaches are lighter and not as wide. The 23 is great for some, we would have no other. Make sure it's right for you. Take note of the space the wheel well takes from the dinette. It's the baby EITR.

The 25s come as twins and there is a conversion to twins for the 23.

Good luck - Pat
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:50 PM   #719
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Thanks for the information Pat. I wonder if anyone has altered the 23FB dinette such that the benches aren’t as wide (don’t protrude into the walkway as far) and created a more stable table (perhaps wall mounted). What I’m envisioning is a 2-seat dinette vs. a 4-seater.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:30 PM   #720
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There are two conversions with pictures posted.

Not exactly what you are looking to find, because the dinette really is a two seat configuration. The wheel well blocks the space needed to slide seating toward the window. You could certainly make a modification if you felt the space was best used that way.

recliners -
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f7/u...fb-150823.html

Linda's mod is in post #9 of that thread

Go to the 23D thread. There is a table mod there that might work. The older 23s used that type of mounting.

Pat
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:48 PM   #721
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http://www.airforums.com/forums/f542...ed-184243.html see post #10

We have an owner who had difficulty configuring the FC23FB dinette as a bed. This thread has a picture of how to do it.

Posted for CharlesBoyle, a new owner. Welcome!
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:50 AM   #722
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1991 29' Excella
Chesapeake , Virginia
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Table in 23 fb

I have found the 24x24 table to be the best for all around lounging in my serenity.
The Kobi butcher block works well.
I use a small bungee underneath to keep the lock secure. I also use 2 cedar underlayment shingles to eliminate any wobble. Very simple. This configuration
works well as a work station. Plus it doesn’t
protrude into the aisle. Table rotation is easy for maximum clearance for couch sitting. It’s very comfortable for 2-3 people.
Tom
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:04 AM   #723
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2016 23' International
1991 29' Excella
Chesapeake , Virginia
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Ditched the serenity bed covering

After getting some grease on the factory bed covering. I found a Tommy Bahama
quilt set for my international.
Sooo much better! Looks great too.
I guess I’m going hybrid with the Asian
zen and coastal Carolina look.
The brown pillows stay in the saloon and the white pillow works with the Tommy..
The green pillows that came with the coach go out the window
For a guy I’m trying !
LOL
Tom
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:46 AM   #724
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Just an FYI, the older 23FBs (we have a 2011) have a table that is always attached to the wall, with two bench seats. The tab,e is very stable, and drops down fairly easily. We never drop it down though. There’s just two of us in our trailer, it’s hard to imagine four. We had a 19’ Bambi before our 23. I couldn’t take the bed either, but I’m 6’5”. The bathroom was almost unusable. I think a lot of the folks with 23CBs sleep separately, with the front dinette converted to a bed each night.
Also, I think the 23CB also comes with a bunk option. That would help with the kiddos. Tough choices for sure.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:03 AM   #725
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Yamhill , Oregon
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The 23FB forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallego View Post
Big question to 23 front bed owners. We went to the dealer this weekend thinking about upgrading to a 23 from our 19 FC. We are family of 4, kids currently 2 and 5 boy and girl, and we do mostly short range Weeknd camping. We don't like the bed or the toilet in the 19, bed is short and I have to jump over wife all the time, and at my 5 10 it is impossible to use the toilet without leaving the door open. The thing is that on paper the 23 FB was perfect, but seeing it at the dealer brought lots of doubts because of the table dessign. The tablet seems to slide off easily and I can see my kids sending the food spelled any time, moreover the unit we saw didn't had an stable pedestal, the table seems flimsy and shakes, therefore we went to the 25 and everything was better but tongue weight and overall measures are way higher than our current right, so we are full of doubts. How problematic is the table on a daily use?? Does it become more shaky if turned into a bed every day?? Thank you año un avance


Our daughter frequently travels with us. For eating we take the wall side cushion out and replace it with one of the small throw pillows. Easy solution and no mods required.

For sleeping we put the table top down a arrange the cushions with both curved corner cushions moved to one end making a round area to put her head and pillow. She is an adult, but finds the configuration very comfortable.
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:56 AM   #726
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Sacramento , California
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We could not live with the table configuration in our 23FB. We took it out and put in a bench seat that makes into a bed. When we want to have a table we take out the folding one we store on the back side of the bed. We have slept 2 middle-school grandchildren on the bench/bed.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:40 PM   #727
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Gallego, You are learning the not so subtle compromises with the different floor plans. I had a 23 FB, didn't need to sleep more than two, but I did not like the dinette. I can't imagine putting it into a bed every night for two kids, and having to take everything off it before doing so. And, it's a narrow bed. The 23CB has a much better solution....with the dinette you can leave in place (and it's easier to sit four at), and the sofa makes into a nice-sized bed for two kids, in 5 seconds. And when it's not a bed during the day...so much more 'breathing room' for four people. BUT...that leaves you with the exact same bed/bath configuration as your 19, which you indicated is the real thorn in your side.

To get 'everything' you really need to slip up to a 25, with the increased cost, size and weight.

As with most things, you need to decide what you can live with, and without!
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:45 PM   #728
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Thank you all for the replies, it seems that we are geared towards the larger 25 FC in order to not being bunny hopping every year. Definitely, RV fabricators and Airstream, in particular, do not take into account younger families, but the 25 seems to be correct for our needs. Price difference is not huge once you consider the price difference betwen Airstream and SOB, size and weight it is more a matter of TV capabilities. I am waiting to receive my a new Land Rover Discovery 5 in 3 weeks and I still have doubts about what can I tow with it. Currently, I own a Ford Flex rated for maximum towing of 4500 pounds with a max tongue weight of 550, and I tow a 19 ft Airstream that weights 3852 empty and 4500 fully loaded with a tongue weight of 550. Even though my trailer's tongue weight is over the limit, I have been towing without any issues using a Blue Ox weight distribution hitch. Now with a bigger car, we think we should be able to upgrade to a 25 that weights 5530 empty/ 7300 full and tongue of 837. Again we would be a bit over the maximum tongue (771 in this case), but this time I don't know if we can use the weight distribution hitch because of the air suspension so I am doing research On the other hand and before I start getting "compliments" from the full-size truck-only community, I need to say that I plan to reduce tongue weight by moving the batteries forward and removing one of the gas tanks and using only a smaller tank (we are still using the original charge on our tanks since 3 years ago), also consider we live and tow in flat South Florida....
I'll let you know the final decision at some point.
Thank you all
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