The 23D thread

[switz]

Welcome aboard.

I have solo camped for over a month in our 23D, Everything is at hand, Not much exercise to get up in the middle of the night to use the head and get back in the sack. Morning coffee requires a five foot shuffle and then the long yard to the dinette seat....

We think our 2015 23D has better use of space for storage than our 2014 31’ Classic.

[GMFL]

Welcome Granada,
I hope you find this thread both useful and entertaining. We pride ourselves on top notch overkill and great fellowship. Feel free you be an active member of our little club house.

[Jim k]

Originally Posted by FloydCoVa

OH no,I think I screwed up! When I did my lift I bought my blocks from a fabcating shop precut to 10 inches. I measured and drilled my blocks with a makita 1/2 inches drill with a harbor freight step bit! No center finding bit or magnetic anything! Clamps huh! Dress it up? what I cleaned blocks with brake cleaner and mineral spirits. Then painted with rusty metal primer rustoleum with a fancy finish coat of rusty metal silver rustoleum left over from my mail box!

Just kidding of course! Wow nice tools and workshop! I thought Ronnie and rob had all the cool tools. My shop does have a 40 inch flat screen and a beer fridge.

Have fun with the install. Looking forward to more pictures.

Scott

Scott,

Yeah well, I have access to a machine shop and wood shop. However, there are times when traveling and working in the field when I don't have access and I find alternative methods to do everything. There are plenty of very good ways of doing projects or repairs well with and without fancy equipment.

With reasonable skill and some care, drilling this with a hand-drill would be fine and the results would be similar. I posted the description and photos to provide some insights.

Had I not had the equipment in house, I would have been overjoyed to have purchased the pieces precut to 10" at a fabrication shop.

My spacer pieces are done, sandblasted and the primer coat is curing. Later this week we will see how the install goes. Thanks to both you and Ronnie for leading the way on this. I love the little tabs welded in to keep the bolts from turning.

Scott, you have me beat with the flat screen TV and the beer fridge!

Jim k

[FloydCoVa]

The credit goes to Ronnie as he came up with this project I just liked the way he put it all together. He made it look simple enough I thought I could do it with some help from my friends. I had fun doing it and learned a lot too.


When the weather permits I will sand and use rusty metal primer rustoleum on the axle. Then coat the axle and blocks with rustoleum undercoating.

Scott

[Jim k]

Originally Posted by FloydCoVa

" I'm thinking that "somebody" at the top at Airstream is afraid for their job, and unwilling to rock the boat by instituting - and championing - a total quality program."

Rob , I think you are right . These big companies are all about lowering the expense ratios. They relie on the name to carrie on. By lowering the cost to do business they can raise profits. I'm sure they have cut corners and employees to save money. They do this to raise profits. This will only last for a short while then the y will loose money as the economy changes and people will take their money some where else. This is the same thing Hunter Harrison has done at CSX. So if the people at the top at Airstream don't follow along the people at the top of Thor will get someone else to get the job Done. I feel quite sure the employees making our trailers know better but can't do nothing about it. I have a 2015 23d and see some short cuts but the things I here about in new trailers lately are far more numerous. Just my 2 cents, Scott

Ronnie, Rob and Scott,

I agree on all accounts here. We were looking at 23Ds late in the summer and at a fair number of other new Airstreams at the dealership. We were stunned by the variety of "issues" that we saw with newer units across the board. Remarkably, we found one 19' Flying Cloud that looked great while the exact same trailer sitting next to it had over a dozen major problems, including cabinetry that was broken during installation and a broken stove.

The other thing that surprised us was the amount of oxidation and rust damage we saw during our inspection to brand new units that were delivered to the dealer here in Ohio last winter. There is a wide range of how these new Airstreams look underneath depending on when and how they were delivered from the factory.

Generally, we saw that older Airstreams on the lot seemed to be built with more care. We were super lucky to find our 2013 and when we went to inspect it we were surprised by how good it look throughout in comparison to newer units. And yes, our 23D has all the same fix or upgrade list as every other one.

The thing about Airstream is who at this point is a direct competitor? I am in total agreement that at these prices the units should be built with much more care, but what is Airstream's motivation for making these travel trailers better?

Companies like Oliver offer an impressive build, but one is stuck with one interior layout shared among two models and in some respects it comes down to features. We did not like the living flow, the rigid interior that allowed for no modifications, and we disliked the appliances.

We view the Airstream to be worthy of our time and we like the aesthetics, interior space and features. The 23D Thread plays perfectly into this scenario of choosing an Airstream and making improvements where appropriate and as needed. For us 23D Thread group was a major factor in providing us with confidence to choose Airstream and the 23D was exactly what we wanted.

If the 23D thread did not exist I am wondering if we would have purchased an Airstream at all. I would have to ponder this, but possibly we would not have based on what we saw with new units on the dealer lot, general discussions in the Airstream Forums, and serious sticker shock.

The questions are what is the possible excuse for bad workmanship and how can a company building a "premier" product get away with this, especially at these prices?

Jim k

[RFP]

Originally Posted by Jim k

< snip > but what is Airstream's motivation for making these travel trailers better? < snip >
Jim k

Money!

Well, for starters, how about the huge boost to their corporate culture to produce a product that is as good (every day) as the long-standing market expectation (a market expectation which, these days, probably sags a bit every day).

Improved manufacturing processes and problem-solving procedures. Ultimately increased sales and lowered line rework costs as well as lower warranty expense.

Worker morale... building a poor product takes its toll on worker attitude and outlook.

Right now, they are in a pickle with nothing we know of to suggest they are going to going to get better... or even try. Studies have shown that it cost seven times as much to recover business "lost" due to quality, than it does to build a quality product in the first place. Seven freakin' times!

I really don't want to "bad mouth" Airstream, but to let this continue (get worse?) is stupid.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by FloydCoVa

" I'm thinking that "somebody" at the top at Airstream is afraid for their job, and unwilling to rock the boat by instituting - and championing - a total quality program."

Rob , I think you are right . These big companies are all about lowering the expense ratios. They relie on the name to carrie on. By lowering the cost to do business they can raise profits. I'm sure they have cut corners and employees to save money. They do this to raise profits. This will only last for a short while then the y will loose money as the economy changes and people will take their money some where else. This is the same thing Hunter Harrison has done at CSX. So if the people at the top at Airstream don't follow along the people at the top of Thor will get someone else to get the job Done. I feel quite sure the employees making our trailers know better but can't do nothing about it. I have a 2015 23d and see some short cuts but the things I here about in new trailers lately are far more numerous. Just my 2 cents, Scott

Scott...

You raise some interesting - and valid - points. Now in my 20th year of retirement, I seldom get too mentally, or emotionally, invested in tales of self-inflicted corporate problems.

When I retired, I, and several senior managers of the company were becoming increasingly apprehensive of the direction of the organization. The new president was from a bean-counting background and the shift in thinking went from taking the long view to one of how-much-are-we-going-to-make-next-month. We saw capital budgets shrink and short-term "success" rewarded, even if at the expense of next year's business. Seven of us retired the same quarter. The day I walked out of the door, the business was the 167th largest conglomerate in the United States; it doesn't exist today.

But they still pay me every month, and will 'till I croak, so, why am I venting?

[CindyH]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

We just use the Progressive Industries non hard wired unit. We boondock more than camp with hookups so when we need it I bring it and plug it in at the camp post.

Portable and moveable sound good to me. (we're on our third Airstream and know that things change...) Does the EMS-PT30X sound like overkill or just a more robust protection plan than the SSP 30-XL?

[GMFL]

The main difference in the two is that the EMS-PT30X give you a read out of Status ie amp draw, voltage and error codes where as the SSP does not.

[Granada]

Thanks everyone for the welcome. I know I am in the right place with other 23 CB/D owners.

[RFP]

Well, this is not very elegant, but perhaps will provide adequate 'protection' to the rear low-point drain plumbing and valves. Half-hour project using stuff I had on hand. I cut the guard from a section of heavy-wall 5" PVC fence post. The overall height is 5", which is pretty much flush with the top of the valve handles. A couple pieces of 1" aluminum angle, a few Pop rivets and some screws to screw it to the floor... done!

[rmkrum]

Nice, tidy job, and you can STILL reach in there and turn the valve...

[RFP]

Originally Posted by Granada

I retired in June 2017. In November of that year I adopted Earl -- a Springer Spaniel and my traveling companion. In that same month I acquired an Airstream 22 Sport so Earl and I could travel together.

After a year and 8,000 miles in the Sport, I knew Earl and I needed a little more space and comfort. In early November of 2018 we took delivery of a 23CB International. It's the perfect floor plan for a man and a dog.

Our first outing with the 23 was to Bahia Honda in the Florida Keys last week. Earl and I had a great time and the 23 proved to be that right choice for our adventures.

Prior to taking delivery of the new Airstream I subscribed to and read all of the post in the 23D thread where I learned a great deal about strengths and weaknesses of our new rig. We're excited to members of the 23D community.

What a great "introductory story"... I want to add my voice to those who have already said "welcome!" The 23D clubhouse is a great place to hang out, swap stories and various "inspiration," find encouragement, and, of course, see how many "mods" we can get each other do do (well, I'm kidding about that last part).

Oh, one more thing: we are kind of partial to 'real' first names around here, but, that's your call to make

Again, welcome!

Rob

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by RFP

Well, this is not very elegant, but perhaps will provide adequate 'protection' to the rear low-point drain plumbing and valves. Half-hour project using stuff I had on hand. I cut the guard from a section of heavy-wall 5" PVC fence post. The overall height is 5", which is pretty much flush with the top of the valve handles. A couple pieces of 1" aluminum angle, a few Pop rivets and some screws to screw it to the floor... done!

I like it.... Inlike it a lot. Great job Rob!

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by RFP

Well, this is not very elegant, but perhaps will provide adequate 'protection' to the rear low-point drain plumbing and valves. Half-hour project using stuff I had on hand. I cut the guard from a section of heavy-wall 5" PVC fence post. The overall height is 5", which is pretty much flush with the top of the valve handles. A couple pieces of 1" aluminum angle, a few Pop rivets and some screws to screw it to the floor... done!

Every mod you make is brilliant in its simplicity and effectiveness! Kudos! I won’t trade my 27 for a 23 - but I want to steal as many ideas from you as I can [emoji3]

Good stuff!!

[Troutboy]

Welcome Granada, and Rob, that looks slick and easy. Nice work!

As for quality, don’t get me started, and I’ll leave it to the numerous other threads... one last comment is Thor stock continues to drop. High of $161, closed today at $64. Seems to be in free fall (down 60%!)....I wonder why?

[Granada]

Sorry Rob for not signing with my name. I am Tom and I appreciate your welcoming note.

Tom

[Fair_Enough]

Originally Posted by Troutboy

Welcome Granada, and Rob, that looks slick and easy. Nice work!

As for quality, don’t get me started, and I’ll leave it to the numerous other threads... one last comment is Thor stock continues to drop. High of $161, closed today at $64. Seems to be in free fall (down 60%!)....I wonder why?

Looking at Thor stock history... in 2000... it was $5 and change. It did hit a short lived peak in early 2018. I wish I knew then what I know now about stocks / bonds / IRAs ;-) The little I have is, for the majority, in bond based annuities, the good part is they payout the same no matter the actual cash values and for life... the bad is the actual value dropped 8% in October and isn't looking good for November. The new buzz word from the bookie is market "correction" that is when you lose your shirt but the broker profits anyway. Aarraagghh.
Clint

[switz]

After this huge stock price drop, maybe some older heads will roll down the driveway at Jackson Center and new ones interested in preserving an icon will be installed......

Thor has become the largest RV conglomerate in the US with quality degradation in nearly every thing they touch. Their bottom line would double if the QC was done at build time and warranty repairs dropped off. But I digress, they expect the dealership to fix the sloppy build. Wrong party as the dealership wants to fix the issues only if the customer finally finds them and are out of warranty...

I am not sure the phrase "factory trained mechanics" is reassuring if they learn the sloppy work ethic of the factory.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by RFP

Well, this is not very elegant, but perhaps will provide adequate 'protection' to the rear low-point drain plumbing and valves. Half-hour project using stuff I had on hand. I cut the guard from a section of heavy-wall 5" PVC fence post. The overall height is 5", which is pretty much flush with the top of the valve handles. A couple pieces of 1" aluminum angle, a few Pop rivets and some screws to screw it to the floor... done!

OOPS! The overall height is 2" ... TWO INCHES

My proofreading skills are stink-O