The 23D thread

[Fair_Enough]

I need a cool light for the beverage cabinet mod with a switch that’s door activated. Anyone?
FE

[Uncle_Bert]

The Seelevel II monitor on my 2018 FC23CB worked fine for the first two years, but this year (just out of warranty ) it has been flaky. For a while, the fresh tank read 100% even when empty, however now for the last couple of months it is reading OPN. I read the manual (OPN is open circuit) and called tech support at Garnet and they suggested that it is likely a loose connection. Does anyone know if there is any way to access the Seelevel sender and connections on the fresh water tank without dropping it? Any other ideas as to the source or resolution of the problem? Fortunately, the grey and black still work. At least with the fresh the worst case is I run out of water.
Thanks to all for all the great mods posted on this forum!

[GMFL]

Originally Posted by Uncle_Bert

The Seelevel II monitor on my 2018 FC23CB worked fine for the first two years, but this year (just out of warranty ) it has been flaky. For a while, the fresh tank read 100% even when empty, however now for the last couple of months it is reading OPN. I read the manual (OPN is open circuit) and called tech support at Garnet and they suggested that it is likely a loose connection. Does anyone know if there is any way to access the Seelevel sender and connections on the fresh water tank without dropping it? Any other ideas as to the source or resolution of the problem? Fortunately, the grey and black still work. At least with the fresh the worst case is I run out of water.
Thanks to all for all the great mods posted on this forum!

Sure you can access them. Inspection plates under the trailer will gain you access. Check the ground wire that’s the most likely suspect....

[RFP]

My brother has a 2016 Airstream Flying Cloud 28-footer. Several of the bolts that hold the fresh water tank straps will not tighten... mostly they just spin. Obviously, the thin material into which they thread (!) won't hold much torque until the threads just strip out. His were probably stripped out at the factory.

So, I've been researching solutions and I'm sure I've found a winner: 5/16" PLUSNUTS. I ordered some from Amazon and today, I did a real-world test. These things are wonderful. Test photos below.

They have much more pull-out strength than Rivnuts (which some have used for this problem), and they are easy to install. Cad plated for corrosion resistance, too.

They require a 1/2" hole and I'm thinking drilling out the existing holes to 1/2" will probably be the hardest part of this project.

QUESTION: Have any of you actually drilled out the holes I'm talking about to a larger size?

QUESTION: How thick is that material?

I'd appreciate your input here, so I can manage my expectations before I crawl under the trailer.

Thanks,

Ro

[Uncle_Bert]

Originally Posted by GMFL

Sure you can access them. Inspection plates under the trailer will gain you access. Check the ground wire that’s the most likely suspect....

Thanks for the quick reply! I assume you mean the round inspection plate that you so nicely described expanding to a more serviceable rectangular plate when you replaced your leaking freshwater tank. I will crawl under when I get the trailer back home on my driveway and see if I can access the wires for the Seelevel sender. I greatly appreciate all your contributions to this forum, it has been the best education ion the ins and outs of the 23D!
-Bert

[Tucker74]

Finally got around to installing the Micro-Air EasyStart 364 you guys recommended, pretty easy install and works great ... tested on a 5 plug 20A circuit after the 5 learning cycles on a dedicated 30A.

Tucker

[RFP]

So, this morning I installed the 5/16" Plusnuts into the "frame" on the forward side of the great water tank. It was surprisingly easy and, as expected, the Plusnuts are super-stout. I'll finish up the back side in the next few days. I can only work lying down for just so long before I start getting a bit of vertigo (BPPV to be exact). To be clear, there are 6 bolts on the front edge of the tank pan, and 6 bolts on the tear edge.

The big surprise for me is that the highways aren't littered with tanks, fresh water and otherwise, fallen off of Airstreams. There must not be a single manufacturing engineer at Airstream. The use of threaded bolts into such thin material is terrible engineering. Oh well, 6 more Plusnuts and I can BE SURE my tank will never become highway litter.

[51hunter]

Originally Posted by RFP

So, this morning I installed the 5/16" Plusnuts into the "frame" on the forward side of the great water tank. It was surprisingly easy and, as expected, the Plusnuts are super-stout. I'll finish up the back side in the next few days. I can only work lying down for just so long before I start getting a bit of vertigo (BPPV to be exact). To be clear, there are 6 bolts on the front edge of the tank pan, and 6 bolts on the tear edge.

The big surprise for me is that the highways aren't littered with tanks, fresh water and otherwise, fallen off of Airstreams. There must not be a single manufacturing engineer at Airstream. The use of threaded bolts into such thin material is terrible engineering. Oh well, 6 more Plusnuts and I can BE SURE my tank will never become highway litter.

I had that happen with a Gulfstream trailer I bought in the 90s. Nice mess once that tank started dragging by it's wires and intake hose. I'll be looking into those attachments on my tank. Thanks for the heads up.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by 51hunter

I had that happen with a Gulfstream trailer I bought in the 90s. Nice mess once that tank started dragging by it's wires and intake hose. I'll be looking into those attachments on my tank. Thanks for the heads up.

Yep, basic engineering practice calls for thread engagement of at least one diameter of the bolt. This means there would need to be 5/16" of thread engagement for the tank/pan bolts. Instead, all we have is one-eighth of an inch or Iess. Ungood.

[RFP]

Dang, it's quiet around here. This place used to be the hot ticket in Airforums, now it's crickets a lot! Where did everybody go, and why didn't you take me with you?

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by RFP

Dang, it's quiet around here. This place used to be the hot ticket in Airforums, now it's crickets a lot! Where did everybody go, and why didn't you take me with you?

Ronnie abandoned us for the fancy 30ft Globetrotter life. Plus between having a busy family AND tearing apart a different Airstream just about every week to do Solar/Battery installs, he surely doesn't have much spare "Airforums Relaxation time." Rob in Denver must be busy with life. Others have gone in to hibernation mode and storage for the winter? Sad.

I'm still here, full-timing it for winter!

Great job on the grey tank! It sounds like you did yours as well as your brother's? I'll add this to my springtime list. With some of the gnarly places I boondock, this sounds like a must-do hardening project. Did you just remove each bolt, drill through the tank cover and frame, and then use a bolt with a larger head, or use a washer? Or was it possible to move the cover out of the way to drill into the frame? For the fresh water tank too, you think? (EDIT: I am not clear if you did this to the fresh or the gray tank)

Also re the Micro-Pulse thread, I agree, it's just a wonderful water pump on/off switch!

[switz]

We are taking the 23D out next Tuesday (27 OCT 2020) for a five day get away at Lost Dutchman, (a local state park near Apache Junction, Arizona) to get away from the house. We are also taking the 23D to a new location for us (Sunflower Camp near Tubac, Arizona) for Thanksgiving as my wife's three local young adults have other plans. We had 28 days in the Classic in September that included Salt Lake City coming and going to see one of my wife's twins, Yellowstone for 7 days, Grand Tetons for 6 days and Bryce Canyon for three days. We over nighted coming and going in Page as that was a good day's drive out of Phoenix.

Our Classic had a complete overhaul before we could go on the above trip due to the failure of solar system. The 600 amp hour lithium battery and Magnum inverter charger died. So we installed a new 600 amp hour lithium battery, inverter/charger and solar charge controller. Process took five days as we fixed many other small issues while there. Our favorite service facility is two days each way from us. That repair trip cancelled the planned initial trip to Glacier National Park and three days off of the Yellowstone stay.

Covid 19 precluded much activity for us as my wife is 71 and I am 75. We could think of no good reason to jeopardize our health and Arizona did and is doing a dismal job of protecting folks or caring for them. Nuff said.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by switz

We are taking the 23D out next Tuesday (27 OCT 2020) for a five day get away at Lost Dutchman, < snip >

Covid 19 precluded much activity for us as my wife is 71 and I am 75. We could think of no good reason to jeopardize our health and Arizona did and is doing a dismal job of protecting folks or caring for them. Nuff said.

Wow, Lou, it sounds like you are really doing it right... managing to get out while taking good care of yourself and your wife. Great!

At 81, we, like you, are takng no chances. Thanks largely to what-passes-for-a-govenor, Texas now has the highest number of cases in the USA, with no prospects of reversing the trend. Sheesh....

[pcskier]

Originally Posted by switz

Our Classic had a complete overhaul before we could go on the above trip due to the failure of solar system. The 600 amp hour lithium battery and Magnum inverter charger died. So we installed a new 600 amp hour lithium battery, inverter/charger and solar charge controller.

What failed and how old were your components? That was an expensive overhaul!

Glad to see you were able to safely get out so much

[RFP]

Originally Posted by pcskier

[snip] Did you just remove each bolt, drill through the tank cover and frame, and then use a bolt with a larger head, or use a washer? Or was it possible to move the cover out of the way to drill into the frame? For the fresh water tank too, you think? (EDIT: I am not clear if you did this to the fresh or the gray tank)

Also re the Micro-Pulse thread, I agree, it's just a wonderful water pump on/off switch!

Peter,

I did this only to my fresh water tank. I find no body of evidence that gray/black tanks coming loose; but falling fresh water tanks is a known - even if uncommon - 'thing.'

Here's the process I used (I'm sure there are other ways, but this is relatively easy and super-duper-strong):

1. Remove factory bolt.
2. Enlarge the factory bolt hole to 3/8" with a drill. You will notice that I slipped a short length of PVC pipe over the drill bit to limit how far up into the unknown recesses of the Airstream it could go.
3. Using a small hole saw (I used the 25mm I had on hand), drill the tank pan to provide relief for the head of the Plusnut. If the Plusnot is installed without this relief, the pan would be captured by the Plusnut, and if it ever became necessay to drop thge tank, the Plusnuts would have to be drilled out.
3a. In the photo, you can see that I used 3 little 1/4"ID X 3/8"OD X 1" long spacers over the 1/4" pilot bit on the hole saw. This let me insert the hole saw with spacer into the 3/8" I had drilled into the Airstream 'frame'
4. Drill out the 3/8" hole to a full 1/2"
5. Now the Plusnut can be installed. I used a few bucks worth of hardware from Ace to make my own installation tool. It worked perfectly and was easy.
5a. Before installation, I liberally coated each Plusnut with Corrosion-X. Even though the Plusnuts are cad plated, I wanted to do what I could to ensure corrosion resistance.
6. Re-install the screw and move on to the next bolt.
6a. I used a good quality anti-seize on the bolts before installation.

When re-installing the bolts, the bolts holding the straps do not require any additional washer. The strap itself provides plenty of washer to cover the enlarged hold. For the two-bolts-per-side without straps, I made big rectangular 'washers' from 1/8" aluminum stock.

All in all this project was relatively easy. I pulled the trailer up onto two 2 X 10 planks, giving me an extra 3" of clearance.

If you decide to do this and have any questions, just let me know... I'll certainly try to help.

Rob

[switz]

The initial install of the Magnum MS-2812 was in the spring of 2014 along with a Trip-Star solar charge controller and four Lifeline AGM Batteries. The following year we installed an AM Solar 600 amp hour Lithium battery. Last year we noticed issues with the Magnum and had many resets. Over the winter in our Phoenix storage facility and it has a 6 amp trickle charger as part of the deal, the wholee system quit.

Last year I had a failure of the Magnum MSH-3012 inverter/charger in the 23D and took it to a repair facility in Tucson. I was able to salvage the AM Solar 300 amp-hour lithium battery.

So we installed a UL Listed Lithionics 600 amp-hour battery (GT12V600A-F24-DIN-Module-UL) with their BMS system (AP037 Series-ADvanced Plug & Play) and an internal heater in the battery box so it could be charged in cold weather. We Installed a Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 inverter charger along with a Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/85-TR. The original Tr-Star was maxed out with the nine 100 watt solar panels and the new one would allow the 10th panel to be installed on the Classic roof. We created a new hickory display panel for the Xantrex control panel, state of charge display for the battery and a new Micro-Air thermostat. The solar charge controller is controlled by an app on my iPhone.

For us, the upcharge for the UL battery label was worth the modest increase in price. We hope this is the last major expense until axle replacement time when we will convert the disc brakes to an ABS system.

[switz]

Forgot to mention that the “hardware” side of this repair cost over $12,000 which is comparable to 2014/2015 prices for the same components.The labor to remove the interior and old stuff, do other upgrades along with the power system and reinstall the interior was over $4,400 which is also in line with each the prior work.

The cleanup of the initial solar wiring with the new generation of equipment is quite amazing. New functionality is an easy three plug reconnect to completely bypass the inverter/charger if necessary and a new way to reach all fuses and power switches without removing the couch.

[switters]

I posted about this in the winterization forum, but someone there suggested I post here as well. We were in Moab this week and just returned home to Park City. It's 15F outside and is going to drop to 7F overnight. We've only had the trailer a few months and were planning to drop it at the long-term storage facility this week, where they would winterize it for us. I didn't count on such cold temps so soon.

Based on feedback on the other thread, here's what I've done:
- Turned on furnace
- Placed a space heater inside
- Drained hot water heater
- Drained LP valves (very little came out)
- Tried to drain fresh water tank (nothing came out; we were at 25% when we left Moab, so not sure if it froze on the way home?)

We dumped grey/black tanks when leaving Moab, but I put one gallon of water + tank treatment into each, so they aren't totally empty.

I'm concerned about pipes freezing and causing damage. Have I done enough to avert that, if I keep the furnace and space heater on? I still plan to take the trailer to the storage facility on Tue or Wed and would prefer them to do the winterizing this time since I have a lot going on this week.

It's 7 pm Sunday night and I'm not sure what else I can do at this point. I don't have an air compressor or the adapter you need to connect it to the city water line. I could probably go to Wal-Mart and get RV antifreeze if they have it.

[RFP]

Originally Posted by switters

[snip]
It's 7 pm Sunday night and I'm not sure what else I can do at this point. I don't have an air compressor or the adapter you need to connect it to the city water line. I could probably go to Wal-Mart and get RV antifreeze if they have it.

Well, I'm thinking that I would have done what you have done, and at this point (after dark, Sunday night) I don't think I've got much to offer in the way of meaningful advice. Keep it as 'warm' as you can stand comfortably overnight and open lower cabinet doors. As for an antifreeze run to Walmart, I don't know; might be a good idea. If there is water in the tank and you pour antifreeze on top of it, you haven't accomplished anything. On the other hand, if you have the little winterizing kit that lets you pull water from the jug with your water pump, that would be worth doing.

I'm going to worry with you. I'm pretty sure I know the anxiety you feel and I really wish I could help. PLEASE let us know tomorrow you are OK.

[switters]

Originally Posted by RFP

Well, I'm thinking that I would have done what you have done, and at this point (after dark, Sunday night) I don't think I've got much to offer in the way of meaningful advice. Keep it as 'warm' as you can stand comfortably overnight and open lower cabinet doors. As for an antifreeze run to Walmart, I don't know; might be a good idea. If there is water in the tank and you pour antifreeze on top of it, you haven't accomplished anything. On the other hand, if you have the little winterizing kit that lets you pull water from the jug with your water pump, that would be worth doing.

I'm going to worry with you. I'm pretty sure I know the anxiety you feel and I really wish I could help. PLEASE let us know tomorrow you are OK.

I appreciate your help and kind words. In retrospect, we completely blew it. I checked the weather in Park City while we were still in Moab and saw that the temps were going to be freezing when we got back. I guess it just didn't dawn on me that I'd need to winterize the trailer in Moab before pulling it back here—especially because we had to tow it through freezing conditions for about 2 hours on the way home.

I don't have the winterization kit, and there may still be water in the fresh water tank, so I guess antifreeze doesn't make much sense. Best I can hope for is that keeping it warm in my driveway with the furnace and space heater will prevent freezing/damage. Tomorrow the forecast is 32F during the day and 15F overnight, by Tuesday back up to 43F and Wednesday 50F. So if I can keep it warm until then, and get it to the storage facility on Wed, maybe I'll be okay.

Or, maybe I'll be learning a very expensive lesson.