Help track the quality of the '04s!

[joshua32064]

Gus,

How far away do you think you are from having the unit in perfect condition where all the problems will be solved?

I have read in previous posts about the problems you have had, but I am curious about what is left to be fixed.

Josh

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally posted by gklott
One of the things we have learned from our many QC issues is dealer support. Chuck, Pete, and Paul at Airstream of San Antonio have been excellent in providing remediation. I'm sure they would rather concentrate on sales.

We view talking to the dealer as talking to the Airstream company. I understand that ASofSA has communicated our many issues to the manufacturer.

Guess this level of dealer support is another reason why we are happy with our 30' classic.

73/gus

Just to add, there are some real gem dealers out there. Also there are some folks that simply would have trouble selling or maintaing bubble gum....seriously.

The dealer here isn't all that great and as for service, I was just not convinced. Put it to you this way, the dealer I got my Bambi from said the unit did not come with a fire extinguisher (Airstream sent one to me). The head service guy told me the pump and the fresh water tank were in the back on the Bambi (they are located up front). I got there at about noon and they were going to install my hitch. It took until about 5:15 and I could hear the service guy complaining under his breath that he had to stay....while the owner was running out the door at 4:30 having not even given me the keys and everyone having to hunt down the second set before I left at 5:30. Then, because the tech guy was in a hurry to get home (to drink beers with his friends), I got the Reader's Digest version of the walk through and then the sales folks and owner mailed me the checklist sheet to sign...... When I bought the unit, I had to get most of the answers from Airstream as the dealer on almost every question, had to get back to me or didn't know at all....

For me, I consider myself fortunate to have Jackson Center about 5 hours away. That isn't the case with a whole bunch of folks, so your dealer had better be good....

On a side note, I did give the local guy a shot at the new coach. He got really snotty about me shopping him and I won't repeat here what he said about other dealers....very unprofessional.....if your dealer is like this one, just be sure you know how to work through the channel as you will no doubt need to get Airstream involoved should you run into problems. A good dealer, IMHO is hard to find.......

Eric

[Pahaska]

Guess this level of dealer support is another reason why we are happy with our 30' classic.

The same can be said for Camper Clinic of Buda, TX. They gave me great service all the way through my many problems with my International.

Saturday, I stopped by to find the tech busily preparing my new Classic for delivery. "Hi, Mr. irwin, I went over all of the things on your list. Please go over it again and I'll fix anything you find." Try as I might, the only thing I could find was a slightly bent latch on the underbody storage bin that had been bumped somewhere along the line.

[gklott]

The problem we have is we're using the Airstream too much to get it back for repairs. We're in the San Diego KOA for two weeks. We like the Airstream so much, we're getting our use from it.

We've worked thru the first 8 or so items, including replacing the freezer door. Will probably need to replace the entire frig since the frig compartment continues to act as a freezer.

We're sked for the next round in November, and we've scheduled with a floor company to replace the flooring.

For those picking up new A/S, watch for fit issues like our convection oven. Note the tilted installation.

Also, be careful with the mirrors and wall mounts. Sticky velcro won't last. If they are put up like ours, the mirror came off the wall, falling into the dinette area. Luckily, nothing broke.

I got a personal note from "Airstreamer" on the Airstream Company forum the other day. I posted the QC list there too. He asked me to in touch with the company. I'm waiting to hear from him on who to call. Sounds like more customer support from Airstream, which is good to hear.

Betweem our dealer and hopefully the company, we will work thru these bugs. Just need to get off the road for a bit for repair time.

73/gus

[Pahaska]

Originally posted by gklott
For those picking up new A/S, watch for fit issues like our convection oven. Note the tilted installation.
73/gus

That was one of my first peeves with my 2003 (built spring 2002) International AS. There were three wall items mounted crooked out of six total items. It was the worst, visually, on the bathroom wall where two of three items were crooked in different directions.

It should be so easy for the installer to use a square to rest the items against while the screws are driven.

The inspector (if there was one) should have picked up these problems instantly on entering the trailer.

[crazylev]

Greetings.

Last weekend my wife and I were able to go look at a brand new Bambi 19’ CCD. The VIN is 1STCFAA154J515943. I did not see a build date, but maybe the VIN number has a clue. This is the model AS we have had our eyes on for some time and were not able to see one up close and personnel until now.

The dealer also had the 16’ CCD so we had something to compare, as well as a Safari, and Classic. Not sure which models. After reading this long soap-box derby, see the photo link below for the points I have made here.

My first impressions were that the exterior of all the AS were quite nice, Evenly spaced rivets, and so on. My only little gripe would be that there were some sharp edges in the Aluminum sheets that could have been filed a little better. One of the two coach batteries was missing. The 19’ had the spare tire option, but a manual jack, which seemed to raise and lower with out to much hassle. The 16’ had the electric jack.

The door to the trailer opened and closed well, however, it required some pull to get the screen door to engage it’s latch properly. But that's nit picking.

On to the inside. The plastic wood like floor was fine, but it looks like you would still have to be kind of careful scratching the floor with sand or gravel.

The pull down white shades are not light blocking, so it is pretty bright in there when the sun is up! I would have to switch those out for some room darkening type pull down shades. The fabric on the front wrap around window is nicer in person than in the photos you see. The is a subtle texture to this fabric.

Now the first real bummer (and this was on both the 16’ and 19’): The cabinets. Construction for the most part seemed to be luann plywood, which does not bother me, unless you have to see it’s edges. Any woodworker out there will know what I am talking about. Not only do the edges show, AS didn;t even bother sanding off the splintery edges, or dab some white enamel paint along the edge. Or even a thin plastic molding “cap” would have been nice. Luan plywood needs to be cut with a very fine tooth say something like a (sharp) 80 tooth carbide tipped laminate blade in order to avoid the splintering that I saw. Again, you woodworkers out there know what I’m talking about.

Some of the sliding tambour Plexiglas doors to the cabinets would not slide, due to incorrect placement of the track.

One cabinet was completely missing it’s side, which I had to make the embarrassed AS dealer take notice, so he could get one on order for the new owner.

I stuck my head in the overhead cabinet in the front of the 19’ Bambi CCD, and found problems: The cabinets are supposed to be attached at the two ends, and in the middle. One end and the middle had what looked like the the proper three screws holding it in place. The left side had one screw missing, the second one was striped and just kind of dangling, and the third was in properly in place.

And now a puzzle: Above the front and rear mounted cabinets, you notice that there is a 1/2” -5/8” gap between the very top face of cabinet and the top interior of the trailer. This gap starts and stops where ever there seems to be a need to hide the top-mounting hardware for that cabinet. Both the AS dealer and I could not figure out why that was there. It is on both the 16’ and 19’ models. (See my photos for reference). Ventilation was ruled out, since the sides of the cabinets are permanently half open. Maybe it has something to do with the flexing of the trailer as it is being towed. Your guess is as good as mine.

Another puzzle: In the back of the 19’ CCD there is the Emergency escape window. There is also a screen in place. The window itself has four little bolts that I assume would attach to the lever that opens and closes that window, IF THERE WAS A LEVER INSTALLED. The window is hinged, so it opens, and when viewed from the outside, you can even see where the lever arm cutout is located. The dealer (jokingly, I think) said I could prop it open with a twig or something...

All operational windows have two levers that open an shut the windows. On this back window, it looks like only the left side could accommodate a lever, since the right side is covered by the bathroom wall. This explains why the rear window is off center when viewed from the outside, and if they moved the window anymore toward curbside, the window would then be mounted impossibly on the curved portion of the trailer.

This is not a problem on the 16’, because the bath is front-ward. The back window is fully functional.

Some of the cabinet doors were not hung straight, but thanks to AS using high quality Grass european hinges, that is an easy fix. And yes there was some evidence of the infamous sawdust and metal shavings.

My conclusion: I still love the CCD and AS in general. I thought, hell I could spend a couple of hours, sand and finish those rough spots, Maybe find a way to conceal that unsightly gap above the cabinets, and I have my dream machine.

But wait a minute. This is about $40,000.00 dollars we are talking about here. I have to take alot of pictures to come up with that kind of dough. And this price is for a lower end AS model!!!

If I have to put in sometime and energy to finish what AS started, maybe I should give a vintage unit a second look. $40,000.00 would buy me a whole slew of stuff from Inland RV!

In the long run, I still will probably get a 19’ CCD sometime. But only after they have rolled a few dozen of these things out of the factory. We are thinking the first of the year, for a possible March-April eta. Overall it is really cool, and feels right just to be in it.

Anyway, count me as still being in....I hope these observations are of any use to anyone looking seriously at AS.

I just hope that quality control gets a helping hand ASAP.

Here is the link to see some of the things I mentioned in my above novel.

http://www.levinphotography.com/19CCD.jpg

Jonathan

[Silvertwinkie]

Jonathan,

You got mail.....

Eric

[Porky Pig]

Jonathan,

You should post this info on the the Airstreamer Forum.

Airstream needs to hear that because of a lack of Quality Control ... you are reconsidering the purchase of a new unit.

If they do not hear from us .. they will keep building them the same way.

[crazylev]

Greetings.

There is one more thought that I had after my visit to the local AS dealer last weekend:

While I would prefer perfection in all ways directly from Airstream, I've decided that it really is not all that bad to have a product shipped from the factory with a few fixable defects. I am sure we would not hear about it if the trailer we ordered had a broken axle on it's way from Jackson Center. It would be a phone call to get the part, and fix it pronto. I would just expect the official licensed AS dealer to go over every trailer with a fine tooth, and fix, patch, repair, replace anything and everything prior to rolling it into saleable inventory or my loving hands. Maybe this is or was what dealer prep is about...

Dear Airstream, You are one of the last bastians of hand-made and made in America today. Ain't but a few of you left. Please make your product with that old fashioned American Pride.

Dear AS dealer(s): Please don't ruin my dream by making me drive hours only to look at a trailer that's half baked. If AS didn't quite finish the job, you do it, then complain to AS yourselves about these issues. I just don't want to deal with imperfections when I am thinking of how the hell I am going to pay for something I really don't need, but really want.

Quality control at the dealer level. KEY.

Each dealer should have a standard checklist, that all other authorized AS dealers have, so quality is uniform accross the board.

So it goes. My vote goes toward making the dealer accountable as well as AS. I think this just might work.

Wow. No more coffee for me tonight.

Jonathan

[KIMILI]

Jonathan,

we recently bought a 25' CCD and have found those same rough/bad workmanship on our cabinets. My husband fixed it himself in a few minutes. No big deal but you're absolutely right, they should not have been there in the first place.

Also, we have those mystery gaps. Our dealer told us they were done on purpose so that the heat generated by the halogen lights could disperse...we don't mind it.

Our Titan is back for warranty repairs. We winterized him this morning elsewhere and then brought him to the dealer for his fixes. He didn't appreciate we winterized somewhere else.... Our wallet did!

Besides all their imperfections go for the 19' CCD! We saw it live for the first time this morning: beautiful! Although after having noticed the #11 imperfection I had to walk out. All easily preventable and fixable.

Make sure you find an excellent dealer! It's worth the search and extra driving miles.

Good luck!

[frozen chosen]

As this is not, I believe, an AS sponsored site, why not set up a forum on dealers? From what little I have seen so far, the dealer makes a great difference. A section in which members identify the good from the ? might spur more attention to the stuff we have been discussing. I know there are several dealers posting on the AS site who seem genuinely passionate on AS's. Then too, there are others out there who don;t give a damn. For example, I called the dealership in Boise on several occaissions, with not so much as a response. My final call ended with the saleswomen saying, "I don't think we handle them anymore", despite the fact they are identified on the AS site as a primary dealer. My dealership, Traveland in Vanocuver, B.C. , seems very cool, willing to deal, and the Canadian exchange rate doesn't hurt the peripherals.

[vajeep]

Jonathan,
We are in the exact place as you are on the CCD Bambi. Our only dealer in VA is about an hour away. On our first visit when we were asking just what options were available on the CCD he gave me the number of A/S and told me to call them. I could tell that I knew far more about the A/S than he did because fo the knowledge I have gathered forom this forum.
But, alas even after the information from A/S we are still in the dark just what options are available on the CCD Bambi. Espically what the list price of these options so we can start to talk about price. For example is the Safari option (this option is available on the regular Bambi and is a really good deal) included already on the CCD or is it even available? We see the spare tire option and electric option but are in the dark after that.
So if any one our there has these options and prices could you please share with the group.

We are with you Jonathan on the wait and see Q/C issues as well!

Abe

[luke warm]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by frozen chosen
why not set up a forum on dealers? identify the good from the ? might spur more attention to the stuff we have been discussing.

Perhaps dealers could earn points for categories, such as for service, prep, courtesy, etc. Or they could loose points for the lack of attention to those same categories? That would give them the chance to shine for an obviously interested audience , if they choose to compete.

[Porky Pig]

Perhaps dealers could earn points for categories, such as for service, prep, courtesy, etc. Or they could loose points for the lack of attention to those same categories? That would give them the chance to shine for an obviously interested audience , if they choose to compete.

Points for dealers ... that would be riveting.

[crazylev]

Abe.

Here is what I do know about the CCD Bambi:

Black tank flush is standard
Fantastic fan w/ rain sensor is standard.
Solar stone guards are optional
Stainless steel wrap are optional
Electric jack optional
Sparetire and mount optional
Hot water heatrer bypass standard (I think on all or most models now except the 16' CCD).
2 deep cycle batterys group 24 standard

There is also a TV option and a Boondocker solar package. Someone wrote that the solar package might no be available now.

The Window stone guards seem like something that is an absolute must have, given the width of the front window and exposure to flying debris from the road. AS should make those standard, and just add that charge to the overall cost of the trailer IMHO.

I think part of the answer of waiting to see if QC improves, is to shop for a quality dealer, who knows what we as a group know, has a knowlegable and friendly staff, a service department that is run like the military. And all AS dealers should have every single model on hand ( I know that this might be real hard since they sell quickly and AS is sending about 25 of these out of Jackson Center a week, but it would be great to go to a place that has significant inventory. For that matter, the AS plant should have one of every model on hand for people to climb around in after that factory tour....

My soap box is wearing out...

Jonathan

[JodynJeep]

I do not think that the dual battery is standard on all CCD Bambis. I know for a fact that one I saw which is a '04 only had one not two. Think it was a 16'. The location where the propane and the electric tongue lifty thingy would not allow for room of two.

[crazylev]

Jody.

You are correct. The 16' and 22' CCD's come with one battery. The 19', 25', and 28' have two batterys.

This according to AS's CCD trailer spec sheet for 2004.

I think I have this spec sheet memorized now....

Jonathan

[frozen chosen]

Crazylev, where did you learn the 19CCD does not have a hot water by-pass? I wonder how this will play out as far as winterizing the thing?

[Pahaska]

I had noticed a brown stain on the bathroom wall of my Classic 25 behind the towel bars, but figured that the cleaning ladies would take care of it. Sadly, it wouldn't come off.

The dealer took photos of it to send to the factory and gave me several optopns for correcting the problem. Since there is no way I wanted them to replace the entire wall, I decided to have them cut a beveled mirror to mount over the stain. It should look very nice. They will get the mirror to me and I will mount it to save me about 60 miles of round trip towing.

I was happy with the dealer's handling of the problem.

[crazylev]

Frozen.

"Hot water heater bypass standard (I think on all or most models now except the 16' CCD)."

This is just for the CCD line.

As far as winterizing, I wouldn't know that because the temperatures never fall below 50 degrees in the coldest months in Chicago, so I would not be doing that chore at all...

javascript:smilie('')

Jonathan