Corrosion problems with new Airstreams

[pagoff]

2006 19 foot Safari, noted corrosion for the first time now--I may have missed it previously but it's now obvious on wheel, light molding, and several areas on the lower body seams. The fact that there are a number of approaches indicates that a solution that is not expensive and/or labor intensive involving removal of clear coat has yet to be found.

I presume this will continue and worsen. From what I read Airstream has no acceptable suggestions?

What a disappointment, I and to think I thought Airstream was a quality, lower maintenance unit--for which we pay a premium price.

Many thanks,

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[Silvertherapy]

Originally Posted by m.a.

Hi guys - I'm brand new to the site and stumbled across this thread. My Airstream bubble has burst! This is the first across-the-board negative problem I've heard of.

Do ALL the newer models have this? If I plunk down $50m or so for a 19' '08 or '09 (which is a HUGE amount of $$ for me, BTW) within minutes of leaving the salesroom floor I'm gonna have white spider-y corrosion lines creeping out from every joint???!! - with no means to stop it??

9,878 posts on this! It must be a huge problem. And it sounds like Airstream could care less.

Am I missing something here? I thought (and bought) one of the major reasons for choosing Airstream was the wonderful quality, and how long they retain their worth. I was so sure about my decision. Somebody give me something encouraging here please?!!

I have a 2008 27FB International CCD that was manufactured in late 07. When I bought the trailer there were no signs of corrosion. Within the first year it showed up along the cut seams at the belt line and on the cast alumimun tail light housings. AS of course denied the warranty for the belt line corrosion, but they did authorize the dealer ( Demontrond RV in Houston, Tx) to replace the housings as a "good will" gesture. The corrosion on my belt line is not very noticable yet, and once I found it I first treated it with a very liberal and repeated application of Corrosion X which actually did seep in and get to all of the corrosion. You will know if it gets to it because the corrosion will turn a dark grey or black color instead of it's normal white color. After wiping off the excess CorrosionX I then apply a good coat of wax on the seams. I have been doing this about every couple of months for the last year and as of now it seems to have stopped the progress of the corrosion. Although I am not happy about Airstreams lack of response to this problem, I do have to say that I have not regretted my full price purchase and have had only a couple of minor QC issues beyond the corrosion. When I consider the complete package of the air stream, I still believe that it will outlast by far anything else that is currently on the market. I just completed a 6 week, 6,000 mile round trip from my home in the Houston area to a jobsite in Anacortes, Washington (about an hour and a half north of Seattle) and I had zero issues or problems with the trailer. It pulled and performed like a dream on the road. I went through some of the worst cross winds in the country and didn't even notice how bad the wind was until I stopped for gas and the wind tried to rip the truck door out of my hand! I have a load levelling hitch without any sway control bars.

[user497]

I am in the market for a 23' or 25' safari/flying cloud. I was going to wait till the 2010 models came out hoping for a drop in price in the leftover 2008/2009 models at the dealerships. I wanted to buy new so I wouldn't have to deal with any issues for a while but it sounds like QC is not what I expected at all. The worst part of this corrosion part to me is not that it happens but that the company isn't acknowledging it. A simple "we are sorry" would go a long way for me. Now that I know about the issue, at least I won't feel blindsided if I do go ahead with the purchase. This leads me to my 2 questions:

1. If P&S can recoat a 27' trailer for around $2k to resolve the issue (as indicated in post #872) I would feel extremely comfortable asking a dealer to knock off $2k from the sale price (I understand they usually go for less than MSRP - I am talking about an additional discount). This way, if the problem does occur, I have the hassle of getting it fixed but at least I won't feel ripped off. This doesn't help all of you out there that currently own (and I feel terrible for those of you with this issue - I am disgusted with the whole thing) but it may give us newbies more of an incentive to buy.

2. This may be blasphemy and if so I don't want to start a flame war, but what other trailers are comparable to AS that you would consider if AS was no longer an option? My understanding is that AS is the last aluminum trailer out there (still in production). Are there companies that build them completely custom (this would probably be out of my price range but I am curious).

The forums and this thread in particular have been immensly helpful. Despite the QC and corrosion issues, it's clear that AS owners love their trailers and have quite a vibrant community.

[safari 28]

For some time I was looking at a company called Millennium, they can build both 5th wheel and traditional trailers and all metal construction. Very durable and well built. I wish now after all the corrosion issues I would have done so.

You need to get into the companies web site, but remember it does not show all the custom work they can do. For example, cherry interiors can be ordered, and complete trailers not just garage models can be built. If I sell the a/s, and decide to stay with a trailer vs motor-home this is how I would go. I may have 2004 28 up for sale if interested, and it has corrosion.

[Silvertwinkie]

Hi user497.

I don't have an answer to the question of where to go if not Airstream. I know that Bigfoot closed it's doors, but was a very well made trailer if you can find one out there.

As for the P&S posting in 872. That price was an approx price. I would call P&S and talk it over with them. My thought is that once stripped and re-coated, you will most likely solve the fillform corrosion issue, but as with the vintage units, depending on exposure and care, the clear will eventually fail as well. This I can accept as a maint issue since a cared for unit that has been cleared can last far longer than most of the new(er) trailers that see this issue.

My opinion, FWIW, is if you still want to buy Airstream, I would to buy a pre-owned unit about 2 years or so old. Why? To be honest, the issues are a crapshoot with a new one in terms of QC (not even taking into account the corrosion issuse). Take a look at the unrelated QC threads via this link:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...ity-50306.html

If you bought pre-owned, you may have found a previous owner who has solved most of the QC issues. If not the QC threads will point you on where to be on the lookout. In addition, a unit around 2 years old will have depreciated far more than a few thousand dollars (beyond the average 19% off list on a new unit). If it is a 2 year old unit, I would think at least somewhere between $6k and $8k as new units depreciate hard the first 3-4 years. If you then came across a good pre-owned and it had signs of this corrosion, then you could negoit additionally off asking price, thereby saving you even more money than the route it sounds like you were considering. In all without any price increase between 09 and 10 model years, you could easily save between $9k and $12k (if corrosion is found) well beyond the $3k additional on an already price inflated new unit.

That's just my opinion. I am not an engineer, a financial guru, etc.

[user497]

Thanks Silvertwinkie. It's now my understanding that the refinishing would be a lot more than $2k so there goes my idea. Alternatively, I gather from the forums that a lot of people have the factory customize their AS. Is it possible to have them use aluminum sheets that don't come pre-coated with the clearcoat? My understanding is that you think the issue is that the sheets they use from Alcoa are pre-coated and that they are damaged during the manufacturing. If they could provide an option to use un-coated sheets (which would cost less $$$) that would give us flexibility to handle the finishing after the AS is manufactured as we see fit without being locked into the clearcoating. Depending on our preferences and resources, some people may still choose to apply the Alcoa clearcoating (either pre or post production) while others may choose the less expensive but less durable pasticoat. That would seem like a fair way to handle this issue that puts more control in our hands. On that note, clearcoat and plasticoat are the only 2 finishing options I know of. Are there others? Do some people simple polish and wax their AS? (And, no, paiting is not an option as far as I am concerned )

[Silvertwinkie]

That kind of custom, for most would be cost prohibitive and I'm not even sure they'd do that. There is a custom department where they make them in a different place than on the line I believe, but expect to pay at least 1.5 to 2x what a normal Airstream would cost.

I "special" ordered my unit, but with upgrades that were easily installed on the line

My suggestion would be:

1) Buy a new one and roll the dice

2) Buy a used one that is a few years old and is already significantly depreciated and if it has corrosion, back out the cost of what re-coating would be at P & S.

3) Buy a different trailer

4) Buy a vintage that has either been fixed up or buy a vintage and fix her up the way you want.

I really think going the custom route is a neat idea, but it's the most expensive way to go as I recall. This doesn't even take into account that Airstream stopped coating the trailers years ago, and I'm not sure they'd clear a whole trailer even if they would build one with different non-coated alum. Best bet would be to call the factory directly. They will tell you first hand what they will or won't do.

If it were me doing it all over again, I'd seriously lean toward option #2.

[Gene]

A couple of days ago I noticed the coating on one of my wheels was deteriorating—about 2 square inches were gone and another small piece was screwed up. Wheels come from another manufacturer. But, I've never had a problem with aluminum wheels on any truck. Since wheel problems are sometimes reported, does Airstream buy cheap ones?

I'll agree with Eric that custom work is cost prohibitive. The factory is not set up to do coating and it requires special rooms. The VOC's are dangerous, it's difficult and very expensive to protect the workers and to contain the fumes. I think that is why Airstream stopped doing the coating. It's become very specialized work.

If I were to do it again, I would look for an older, well treated one and expect to have to fix a lot of things. Still should be cheaper. But when I bought, I knew very little and that would make it hard to know what I should be looking for. I bought new because I didn't want any issues, but so far as QC, I've had plenty, though not corrosion on the body.

From what I've read here in the past few months, a lot of sales of new trailers have been lost at a time when the company cannot afford it. A lot of people read this who aren't members or never post, so the amount must be a lot more than just counting the posts of people who have said they will not buy a new trailer. Think what 20 lost sales mean in revenue to the company and the struggling dealers.

Gene

[dlb435]

Gene, Don't feel too bad about having issues with a new trailer. Almost every one does. My next door neighbor has a big motor home that he bought new. I've got an 08 Airstream. We were comparing notes and having a laugh about the little things that have to be fixed after any trip. Having had older Airstreams, I can tell you that new is a lot better than old. It was fairly normal in the old trailer to pull panels to fix leaks or broken gear while at the camp site. Most of the issues I have now can wait until I get home.
As far as the corrosion problems with the new Airstreams goes, what I'm seeing is small amounts of corrosion under the clear coat. This is fairly normal (look at the wheels of any 2-3 year old car) I don't see a big problem here, it's just a little disappointing to have your "new" Airstream showing signs of age. Wait 15 years and we can buff these babies out to a high shine.

[pagoff]

The auto industry in the 50's and 60's had a terrible corrosion problem, bodies rusting through was very common. They did something about it, with corrosion dips and other fixes, I presume.

The RV industry does not seem as quality oriented. Aside from the unique shell of an Airstream and some nice interior design stuff, generic parts are the rule. They are not better or worse than other trailer manufacturers. In many instances they are cheaply made.

I picked up my airstream from the dealer with water in the running lights--they were corroded and had to be replaced with the same cheap generic lights. I had to seal them myself.

Regarding our corrosion problem, the clearseal is in all probability uniquely developed for the airstream application and as we are learning has problems. What's disappointing there is not acknowledgment by Airstream of a problem; and no recommendations for prevention.

Yes I realize they must be worried about legal issues but if they want to stay in business
they can't deliver a trailer for which they charge a premium with corrosion already extant.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by dlb435

Wait 15 years and we can buff these babies out to a high shine.

This isn't exactly true. The new(er) trailers have different alum and will not polish to the high shine you are referring if you are comparing them to vintage. You are right however that a strip/buff and re-coat is most likely the only real fix, but I could and would gladly accept this at a 15 year interval vs 6mo to 1 year.

[Gene]

dlb, Barb and I have discussed our expectations and other feelings about our experience with our Safari a lot. We both have high expectations and worked in professions where there was a high premium on doing things right. Others relied on our expertise and the consequences of mistakes could be severe for them. So, we tend to expect the same from others, especially when we buy what is supposed to be a premium product. We also lead busy lives, even though "retired", and don't need things to fail, screw up our plans and interrupt our lives. We are the consumers that mediocre manufacturers and retailers do not want. We know this about ourselves. We also wonder whether our expectations are too high. We try hard not to just be fault finders, but to be reasonable.

We try to buy the best because we know in the long run it saves money and grief. Airstream is promoted as a premium product that lasts and lasts. One observation of mine is that RV's in general do not have the same QC standards that autos and trucks have. We did not know this. We did know Airstream was supposed to be a quality product. I believe part of the money paid for them is for a design mostly perfected decades ago and that the factory does not have high standards for quality or for the design of the many components that make up an RV. It may be that Airstreams have fewer problems than other brands. The factory does not look particularly efficient to me, but as they are hand made and have a small market, efficiency is hard to maintain. High prices are a result.

The basic structure seems sound and does last for longer than other RV products. We did in 2002 buy a truck camper and it was a bundle of problems and we returned it. A friend bought a different brand of truck camper and it was also a bad product. But both were made by small manufacturers and that market seems to be very fractionalized and standards are very low. That's only two experiences, so we assumed it was not indicative of trailers in general and Airstreams in particular.

I am also aware that corrosion may be a problem that cannot be solved on the aluminum skin and there is no technology available that will do better (nonetheless coating the edges may help). Wheels are different—different grade of aluminum and different coating. While some wheels may have coating problems, we have never had such problems with the ones that have come on trucks we have bought. I believe there to be quality issues with the wheels on some vehicles, not on all of them.

Thor is a big company in the RV field and could put pressure on their suppliers to produce better products. More attention could be placed on bad design—for ex., the placement of the water pump on some models (difficult to reach, difficult to clean filter, noise because not mounted well, difficult to install bypass). I think the company needs some new blood because they have become too comfortable with their (previous) reputation. It appears at times, but maybe not now, Airstream has had a QC engineer on site. If it does have one now, they are not listening to that person. The corrosion issue should be acknowledged. One thing that inevitably angers customers is the feeling they are not heard. It's the professionals who appear insensitive (some doctors and lawyers are an unfortunate example) that are far more likely get sued for malpractice. If Airstream acknowledged the problem and tried to work with unhappy customers, they would lose less money doing whatever can be done than by stonewalling because stonewalling leads to lost sales and lawsuits.

In my brief experience I find that if approached correctly, many smaller issues are taken care of easily and the customer relations dep't is responsive. Others report the same is no longer true of the corrosion issue—I do not have a corrosion problem, so I can't report personally. Perhaps the higher up execs at Airstream have told consumer relations to stonewall on corrosion; they have not acted the same way on other issues, so it doesn't seem typical of consumer relations to stonewall on this.

It is unfortunately typical of corporations to stonewall when problems happen. It seems to be in the executive personality to not be able to acknowledge mistakes. It results in much more expense and sometimes company bankruptcy. As 2air said last year, PR is the best and cheapest way to make a company change. The Forum is providing that and some people at Airstream are well aware of this thread. So we are talking to them as well as ourselves. I assume they can count and see how many people have decided not to buy a new Airstream. Eventually someone will use this thread and interview some people (we are easy to reach through PM's) and an article will be published somewhere that will upset some people in JC. Maybe it will get to the NY Times or Wall St. Journal in an article about the problems in the RV industry. An article about Airstream has interest because it is an American icon and it is the type of story major publications love because people are aware of Airstream and it has an internet angle. I can see the headline: "American Icon Suffers Customer Revolt". Subhead: "Internet Brings Owners Together to Pressure Airstream". Such media attention is not 100% assured, but the chances of it appearing are large enough that if I were an Airstream exec I would lose sleep about it.

As for us, we aren't going to sell the Safari before corrosion appears. We are tired of traveling via motels and eating in bad restaurants, sleeping on bad beds, wondering if the place is clean when we see mold on the shower grout, carting food in and out of motels to make the majority of meals ourselves, and paying a lot for this experience. We try to adjust. We trade on set of problems for another. I bring lots of tools and can fix most things myself. I don't want to fix things though. dlb, I admire your acceptance of problems and we are trying to be the same way, but it doesn't come easily for us. Maybe we should spend some time in Louisiana and let the good times roll.

Gene

[Frody]

Gene, you are on target and reasonable with your expectations but we may be old school.

There are three element of most products or projects. Quality, service and price. Pick two of the three...rarely do you get all three. If you want quality and good service, the price is higher. If you want low price, plan on sacrificing quality or service. It is how it works for the consumer.

AS thinks incorrectly they can maintain a high price even though the quality and service is on the slide. Wrong! Eventually the momentum of a bad reputation takes hold and goes beyond the point of no return. AS foolishly assumes their good reputation of the past will give them enough influence to work through the future. But keep in mind, the past lacked the power of the internet. It is a different world we play in.

Another law of the jungle is the strong survive. This past week the auto industry experienced this law of wrath in a very painful way. A good number of dealers were cut lose from the mother ships of GM and Chrysler. Some of the criteria for the severance was quality, customer complaints/satisfaction and sales. Some dealers were seen on the network news whining and quoted saying "why me?" The answer, because your lousy methods of operation finally caught up with you and now the American consumer has the ultimate say. They got what they deserved.

Take heed Airstream! We trailer owners may take a hit with a corrosion problem, but Thor, you will lose the whole operation when you swirl down the drain and in to the great reservoir of crappy companies that chose not to provide quality and service. It's the law!

[Silvertwinkie]

Not to add sensationalism to the recent posts, but have you noticed some dealers that either carried Airstream exclusively or as a line disappearing or cutting their Airstream line lately? Seems I've heard rumblings of 1 or 2 dealer consolidations, dropping the Airstream line, and/or just a few outright closures of entire combined operations (Airstream and SOB dealers).

Was talking with a buddy a bit ago who has a great relationship with an Airstream and SOB dealer. The low cost SOB units and service is what is keeping the dealership afloat, not so much the new Airstream trailer segment of the business-- not even the Airstream sport or entry level units either. This can be somewhat verified based on the comments earlier on this thread where Airstream has shed a number of positions-- probably due to lack of demand.

I think personally this economy has accelerated the effects of what IMHO would have been the eventual end result-- lower volume of sales due to unhappy customers of QC and of course corrosion. Add the current state of the economy and you have "the perfect storm" type situation. Many folks (read not all) will be a bit more frugal when it comes to discretionary spending as has been very correctly pointed out earlier. Many folks are doing a lot of homework on forums like this and on the web in general.

Think what Gene has written a few post prior to this one really has hit the mark exceptionally well.

[VaVet96]

Meanwhile there are some innovative competitors in the wings. I've been following this thread for a year hoping to see a resolution because we just fell in love with the Airstream. It will be our first RV though, and at our age and financial situation, possibly our last, so it's got to be right. I've scoured the internet and the shows for something fairly light with great design and great quality - like Airstreams! The new Trailmanor Elkmont is a good step in the right direction, but it sure doesn't generate the excitement of an Airstream design. Then today, I came across a new company, Earthbound RV. Folks, they're small and just starting out, but if many companies start producing the trailers like they show on their website, Airstream better watch out. The whole focus in their 44 page Introduction and Construction download is quality, hi-tech lightweight construction, innovation and more quality. And yes, they're aluminum. Like I said, they are just starting out, but if this is any indication of where the industry will go on the other side of the recession, it is exciting. To us, one of Airstream's biggest selling points is the community of Airstreamers, and no other brand will compete with that for a long, long time. Quality is equally important though, and surviving competitors as well as the new ones are going to be all over that subject to build/rebuild market share.

[Silvertwinkie]

I have to say, the RV has merit.....

[user497]

I think it may be time to start a new "Custom Airstreams" thread similar to the one from a year ago:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f353...ale-39559.html

As I indicated earlier, this corrosion problem is giving me pause but now that I have done more research and see what some companies are doing rebuilding and restoring vintage and even newer Airstreams, it is quite amazing (see the links in the earlier thread). Given this new information, I am leaning much more towards buying a pre-2000 unit (and possibly much older) and having one of those companies rebuild it per my specs. My understanding is that a vintage rebuild (as opposed to restoration) will be about the same as a new unit (assuming you don't go wild in what you want). This way you get a much more unique AS and no clearcoat! Sound like a win win. At least until I find out that that they are much more expensive than I first thought

[Gene]

Two new sales lost in the last 3 posts. This is accelerating.

Gene

[M GARDENS]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

I have to say, the RV has merit.....

Yes it does. Since this corrosion issue came up, we've been re-thinking, more like ruling out buying a new Airstream. This unit really looks interesting and we are plan to take a look at one before buying.

Regards,

Bob

[G_Lariviere]

Any one thought of mounting one of these on their trailer?
Car and Automobile EMF Protection - Vehicle Ground Strap
I'm an engineer in the aerospace industry & all aircraft use whats called a static dischager on the trailing edges of the wings, elevators & rudder. Since the airstream is more like an aircraft than a boat it seems to make since to use some sort of grounding or static discharger rather than a zinc anode that's used in the marine industry.